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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 5 December 2025
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Displaying 1279 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

We have spent £28 million on the proposed national care service so far. Do we need a national care service in order to drive the reforms that you have all said that we need, given that there is a significant deficit, which Rachel Cackett spoke about?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

Yes. Thank you. My final question is for the rest of the panel. Given that COSLA has withdrawn its support, and given that the unions, including the Scottish Trades Union Congress just yesterday, have withdrawn their support for the bill, where does that leave the bill? If we push forward with the bill as it is, with seemingly no shared accountability, what do you think will happen?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

I remind members of my entry in the register of members’ interests, which states that I am a practising general practitioner.

Councillor Kelly, you said that COSLA had pulled away from shared accountability, yet paragraph 80 of the memorandum talks about the importance of shared accountability. Given that unions have withdrawn support from the NCS—the Scottish Trades Union Congress and COSLA are the latest bodies to do so—and that, as we have heard, most of civic Scotland is united against it, it seems to me that the bill is dead in the water. However, Maree Todd, the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport, has said that COSLA’s

“walking away ... shows total disregard for the people we all serve.”

If the NCS is pushed through in its current form, what do you feel will happen to the sector?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

I declare an interest as a practising NHS GP.

It is not just COSLA that has pulled out; all the unions have done the same. I have been looking at the submissions, and no one is in full agreement that the bill as written is the way that it should be going. Certainly, that is true of the panel.

Karen Hedge spoke quite powerfully about the bill being about where the power sits. First, where does the power sit in the bill? Secondly, do we need the NCS in order to make the reforms that you have all said are needed, or could we make those reforms now, given that we have spent £28 million on the NCS so far?

10:15  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

I remind everyone of my entry in the register of members’ interests as a registered NHS general practitioner.

I want to touch on palliative care, which we have not talked about at all—I want to stay on palliative care and not touch on assisted dying. The Scottish Government produced a policy paper with seven outcome measures. How will the national care service impact palliative care?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

I was part of a panel that talked about palliative care and some of the issues that surround it. Funding is one of the big challenges, as with most things. People perceive that there is a lack of funding for palliative care. People feel that there is also a huge and disproportionate difference between the palliative care that you will receive at the end of your life if you are from an ethnic minority or a more deprived background and the care that others receive. That inconsistency is not just present in one health board; it exists across our country. With no more money going into palliative care—that is not what the national care service is about—and given that huge discrepancy, what can the national care service do to make a tangible difference to the people who are most disproportionately affected?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

The Convention of Scottish Local Authorities has decided that it is no longer in favour of the bill. Given the lack of support from one of the most important partners, it seems to me that the bill is dead in the water. COSLA has not come before the committee yet, but, if we are to believe that it has withdrawn its support for the bill and does not agree to it, do you, as chief executives and chief officers, believe that the bill can deliver what is intended, or do you agree that it is dead in the water?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

From your reading of the bill as it stands, Edith, are you confident that it will improve the working lives of the people who work on the front line of care?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

Forgive me, but I asked about your reading of the bill. As it is written right now, is that what you think will happen?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 1 October 2024

Dr Sandesh Gulhane

I am sorry, but that did not answer my question in any way.