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I also want to ask about your budget. In your plan, you say that the budget that you have outlined

“is the minimum required to deliver our current statutory functions”,

but that

“there is some unpredictability.”

Could you tell us a bit about that unpredictability and what conversations you are having with the Government about it?

Thank you.

Good morning, cabinet secretary, and good morning to the officials who have joined you.

I want to pick up on your earlier point about parents. As a committee, we have heard that those in the system are in distress: staff are overworked, pupils are not attending and, as you have alluded to, parents feel that they are never done fighting. In fact, parents have said that the situation is heartbreaking, that the waiting is so frustrating, that it is a minefield and that so many children and families are being failed. One said, “I wish these people making decisions could walk in my shoes.” You have said that you have provided additional resources, but what would you say to those parents and families?

The data that was published yesterday shows that there was one specialist support teacher for 40 pupils in 2013 and that there is now one specialist support teacher for 89 pupils. The cabinet secretary has said that there has been an increase in the number of support assistants. Is the Government’s specific policy to transfer the responsibilities of a specialist teacher and the terms and conditions that come with that post to pupil support assistants? If so, what will the cabinet secretary do about the terms and conditions that come with that?

I agree that it does.

We have heard evidence, including from the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists, that the more consultative approach that colleagues have alluded to has meant that, for example, speech and language therapists or CAMHS professionals have had to give input to teachers who then have to provide speech and language therapy to pupils. We heard parents talk about one case in which teachers were giving pupils cognitive behavioural therapy because there were not enough psychologists to provide that intervention.

In answer to one of my parliamentary questions, Jenni Minto said:

“Over the next three years the Scottish Government will invest in a new programme of work ... to build confidence and capacity for staff working in early learning and childcare settings, and joining up efforts across other key public services”.—[Written Answers, 10 August 2023; S6W-20521.]

Is it now Government policy to have a consultative approach in schools and to put more workload on teachers?

I think that it is important for the Government to show leadership on that.

It will not surprise the cabinet secretary to hear me say that we need to look at the legislation in terms of the plans that are available, as I made that point extensively in the passage—perhaps I should say, the non-passage—of my Disabled Children and Young People (Transitions to Adulthood) (Scotland) Bill.

A moment ago, we heard that individual plans are on the increase but they do not have a statutory basis. Before I move on to my substantial question, will the cabinet secretary say whether she thinks that there is a need to put some of those plans on a statutory basis so that parents have the right to redress?

I think that colleagues will probably deal with the issue in more detail, but thank you for that answer.

On the point about the committee being made aware that a range of services outwith education are required—the cabinet secretary has already highlighted this, so I think that the issue is understood—there are a number of services, such as speech and language therapy, child and adolescent mental health services, counselling services and social work services, that are required to be available for a young person. Is it the cabinet secretary’s intention that education should be co-ordinating those services to support children with complex needs?

It very much feels that way, and teachers have told us that. They can have 33 pupils in their classes, although the number goes down to an average of six in special schools. Class sizes, workload and non-contact time all have to be part of the solution, so I would like to hear the cabinet secretary say whether those things will be included in the action plan.

Finally, on the joined-upness of services, there is one educational psychologist to around 650 pupils, and there is a budget reduction of around £10 million in mental health. How does the cabinet secretary see all the joined-up provision working in the way that she describes without putting extra workload on teachers?

Is it your intention, in any updated code of practice, to address some of the issues that we heard about from Sylvia Haughney, including support staff not having rooms to take young people to and having to provide support in stairwells or, in some cases, cupboards?