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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 May 2025
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Displaying 1844 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Would you accept that the gap was increasing between 2016 and 2019?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

That is correct. Sorry.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning, cabinet secretary. Congratulations on taking up your post, and welcome. I wish a good morning to the officials, as well.

In a similar vein, regarding the teachers’ pay settlement, the Government’s reply to the committee last year said:

“We’ve listened to feedback from headteachers about seeking longer term certainty over PEF so, for the first time, we have managed to secure PEF allocations for four years.”

However, the Scottish Government’s evidence to the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee yesterday called that into question. The committee heard that, far from continued certainty, some pupil equity funding will be clawed back to pay for the teachers’ deal. Is that the case?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

My understanding is that approximately £30 million of the money will be reprofiled to go towards the £80 million that the Government said that it would need to find.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Does that include in this financial year?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you.

You also mentioned the additionality that is attached to PEF—you said that schools and local authorities had considered that PEF was additional spending. The report on how that funding has been used was published late last night. There is very little in it about the detail that was asked for on additionality. Are you aware of any local circumstances in which PEF is being used to backfill current core costs?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

It was the three years previous to 2019 that I quoted figures on.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. I appreciate that, cabinet secretary. I offer my apologies; you are absolutely correct that it is the local government deal, not the teachers’ pay deal.

Nonetheless, there are still concerns locally that that will destabilise some of the plans that headteachers had made this year to use that funding. They have sought reassurance that the funding will, indeed, be given back to that pot. Can the cabinet secretary guarantee that that will be the case?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny and the Scottish Attainment Challenge

Meeting date: 27 September 2023

Pam Duncan-Glancy

That is why I am concerned, and it is why local people are concerned, about the movement of the £30 million. I appreciate that it can be—as you described it—reprofiled, but, as you are probably aware, because of funding arrangements being based on the financial year or the academic year, it could look as though there could be movement of funding in that some funding that could be used now might be taken back.

Schools have said that they do not think that it is possible to do that, and they are using their funding in a way that relies on its continuing on the longer-term basis that the Government set out last year. I would appreciate your looking into that and making sure that schools, headteachers and local authorities will not feel any detriment from movement of that funding.