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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 July 2025
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Displaying 2001 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 20 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

It very much feels that way, and teachers have told us that. They can have 33 pupils in their classes, although the number goes down to an average of six in special schools. Class sizes, workload and non-contact time all have to be part of the solution, so I would like to hear the cabinet secretary say whether those things will be included in the action plan.

Finally, on the joined-upness of services, there is one educational psychologist to around 650 pupils, and there is a budget reduction of around £10 million in mental health. How does the cabinet secretary see all the joined-up provision working in the way that she describes without putting extra workload on teachers?

11:00  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you—I appreciate that. That brings me nicely on to my next question. Do you believe that local authorities are taking a rights-based approach? How is that reflected in resource allocations for pupils with complex needs, and in supporting families and young people to contribute to and challenge decisions of the local authority?

11:00  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I will resist the temptation to talk about CSPs and resources, because other colleagues will talk about those. Why is communication breaking down and what do we need to change to ensure that everybody knows who should be communicating what, at the right point, and to whom?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Okay.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning and, as the convener said, thank you for what you have submitted in advance.

I have a fairly open question to start with. Why do parents feel that they have to fight all the time? What are the root causes of the difficulties that they and children and young people face?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning, and thank you for joining us and for sending the information to the committee in advance. It has been hugely helpful.

I have a broad opening question. Why do parents have to fight all the time? What is the root cause of the difficulties that they and their children and young people face when accessing education?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 13 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I have a question on that particular point.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 6 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

That was fascinating and reminded me of a previous life, when I looked into disability discrimination and internalised ableism. There is a connection between that and the points that you have made.

You talked about placing requests and the reasons that local authorities give for not granting such requests. How many of those cases involve the local authority saying that it cannot afford to have the child in mainstream education?

I ask that because a lot of what I have heard through my casework shows that, when parents apply for a placement in special education if they are really concerned that the support that their young person needs is not available in mainstream education, the school refuses the application for various reasons. There is not the necessary support in mainstream education, because of the costs associated with that, so we would expect the number of requests for pupils not to be in mainstream education to increase. I am trying to make the point that I would expect more local authorities to say that it is too expensive to teach certain pupils in the mainstream environment. Do you see that happening?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 6 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Forgive me; I am sorry. That was unintentional. I was just responding to the point about placing requests.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Additional Support for Learning Inquiry

Meeting date: 6 March 2024

Pam Duncan-Glancy

First, convener, I apologise for stepping across Bill Kidd’s area of questioning earlier. It was genuinely unintentional.

On the CSP, which we were just beginning to discuss, parents and pupils tell us that it is really difficult to get something written down or a plan of action to put in place the support that young people need. School staff tell us that although all sorts of things are written down—obviously there are issues around workload and so on—the fact is that only one plan has a statutory footing, and that is of course the CSP. How important is that statutory footing, notwithstanding the limitations on the CSP, which I will come on to?