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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 July 2025
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Displaying 2001 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I appreciate the points that the cabinet secretary has made, and I understand that the convener has amendments in that space in group 21. I am reasonable, so I am prepared to listen to that discussion and think about how we can take the issues forward.

However, I am quite clear that there needs to be a mechanism to enable concerns to be addressed. I acknowledge that the convener has put forward suggestions about that mechanism, as I have done in amendment 254, and I would like to hear at least an acceptance from the cabinet secretary that something needs to exist in order for the review to be looked at. Perhaps she can intervene in order to confirm that.

This is not only about higher history; there have, in recent history, been other problems with exams, not least, of course, what happened in 2020, and there should be the ability to review those qualifications and how the exams are carried out. I think that the Government has a role in that respect, but if it does not want that role, and if we do not want the qualifications body to be seen to be marking its own homework, I am interested to see the alternative that the Government puts forward.

On that basis—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Amendment 282 would ensure that the strategic advisory council’s role is not just consultative but also visible by requiring qualifications Scotland to show, in its corporate plan, how it works with the strategic advisory council and responds to its advice. Embedding that in the corporate plan would strengthen transparency and reinforce the council’s influence in shaping the strategic direction of qualifications Scotland. The amendment adds to the other amendments in the group in the name of Ross Greer.

Requiring transparency in how qualifications Scotland will work with the strategic advisory council and respond to its advice by placing that in the corporate plan will give assurance to people who are looking to ensure that qualifications Scotland is operating differently to the way that the current body operates and that the people who are part of the strategic advisory council, including, crucially, those whom my colleague Ross Greer just set out, have an opportunity to influence the organisation’s corporate plan. That is why amendment 282, in my name, is important.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I thank the member for finishing the point before taking my intervention, because it has helped me to understand the rationale a little bit. The point that I was going to make was about whether the charters would have set out things that the organisation had to do, even if the pandemic had made it difficult to continue doing them.

That would not have been unusual—the pandemic made it difficult to do a lot of things, and emergency legislation was put in place in recognition of that—but do you accept that it would have been better to have had charters in place, in order to set out what the organisation should have been doing, even if it meant that some other aspects had to happen, through regulation or emergency legislation, in recognition of the fact that we were in the middle of a global pandemic? Some of what could have been set out in charters might have prevented some of what we saw in 2020.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Will the member take an intervention on that point?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

As the cabinet secretary just said, “However”, I wonder whether there was about to be a slight change in tack—I hope that I have not pre-empted that.

Would the Government support the principle of having the unique learner number, and of putting that in legislation, with the data-sharing aspect being seen as a benefit of that but not necessarily set out in legislation?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Will the minister take an intervention?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I am looking at the text of the amendments. Amendments 244 and 328 are about getting advice on whether, in order to allow either the HMIE or qualifications Scotland to exercise their function, there should be a unique learner number and there should be national data-sharing agreements. The amendments do not seek to set up those aspects but, in order to progress action on them, would enable the question to be asked as to whether they should be set up.

I take the point about the role of both organisations in doing that, but I think that the amendments are sufficiently narrowly drawn to the functions of the organisations to which they refer.

I move amendment 244.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I support the intention behind amendment 302, but can Miles Briggs clarify what definition of the term “registered teacher” Stephen Kerr is using?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 30 April 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Will the cabinet secretary clarify what particular concerns she has with the drafting of that amendment?