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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
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Displaying 2001 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

It has been put to the committee that, if we move to a self-declaration model and do not collect data on both sex and gender, we might not necessarily have the information that we need to determine whether we are making progress in certain areas of women’s equality. I am keen to know whether you considered that.

I appreciate that some of the questions appear to be coming from slightly left field, as you have described, given the experience that you had in 2015, but I am keen to understand how much of that was explored in what you are seeing now.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good afternoon to the panel. Thank you for the evidence that you have given so far and the information that you submitted in advance, which we found incredibly helpful.

A lot of my questions have already been covered, with the exception of a couple, so I will focus on them. You have touched on this, but can you tell us, from experience elsewhere, whether there are any countries that have monitored the impact of self-identification on the use of single-sex spaces?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Will the ability to withhold the fact that someone has a gender recognition certificate, as it is protected information, be affected by the bill?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Yes.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you both for your answers.

I want to move on to talk about what we have heard already, which is the interdependence of human rights. I wonder if the SHRC could comment. We have heard from some people who have given evidence to the committee that there are women who are self-excluding from services and public spaces, such as toilets and changing rooms. That self-exclusion itself is significant enough to be proportionate and meet the test that you have set to determine that changes may be needed.

Can you tell us about your understanding of that behaviour and how it relates to this particular piece of legislation? I very strongly take the point that we must refer specifically to the legislation that is in front of us, as opposed to anything else.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

That was helpful—thank you.

I would like to ask one final question, if that is okay, convener.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. I appreciate that. I also appreciate your important reminder that the bill is about what we can do for trans people.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Your point about the impact on trans people is crucial with regard to not only post-legislative scrutiny but how trans people enjoy their human rights. I am particularly pleased to hear about the focus on the bill itself and what it actually does as opposed to other areas.

I have another question that touches on your point about representation. I have seen and am convinced by Close the Gap’s evidence, but can you set out for the record your understanding of the recent legal cases on the census and representation on public boards?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning, panel. Thank you for your answers to the questions so far—I had many of those questions on my list, so I will skip them. I also thank you for the hugely helpful evidence that you gave in advance of your appearance before the committee this morning.

My first question is to all of you. How would you characterise Scotland’s support—or otherwise—of LGBT people now? How might that change if the bill is passed?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

No, convener. My question has been covered.