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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 July 2025
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Displaying 2001 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Yes. I have some other questions.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

This gets to the heart of human rights, and it is ultimately about the human rights of trans people. Of course, trans people’s rights are human rights, not because they are trans but because they are human. We have heard in a lot of the evidence sessions about the importance of the human rights of everyone who is involved.

I am deeply disappointed by the public discourse around this particular debate, in which trans people have seen their rights being debated on opening the papers or watching the news; of course, women have also experienced that debate about rights, but human rights are inalienable, not debateable. I believe that a lot of that discourse is to do with the vacuum that was left by the Government between 2017 and 2019 and I am disappointed by that. What can the Government do to sort out this mess?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you, cabinet secretary. Could you set out what changes you have made and what equalities analysis you have done since the equality impact assessment in 2017 to 2019? We have heard concerns that there have not been many changes.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

In the bill, it is set out that there will be regulations on the form and on the information that the registrar general will be able to collect. You have already touched on that—and I will come back to the issue of young people in a moment, if the convener allows it—but would you be prepared to publish the regulations for the registrar general ahead of the bill being finished at stage 2?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. My final question on this topic is about the prison service. We have briefly spoken about that and, notwithstanding the comments on the numbers involved, which are small, is it your view that, following the review of Scottish Prison Service guidance, a gender recognition certificate would not be considered as a kind of passport as it has been in other areas of the UK, and that the approach would remain risk based, both to the trans person and to the other people who are living in prison at the time? Would a risk-based approach still take precedence over the relevance of a GRC?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I am concerned that the instruments will increase the cost of accessing justice by 2 per cent in July and a further 2 per cent next April, at a time when disabled people are facing extreme cost of living increases. Some evidence that was submitted to the consultation on the increases highlighted that the exemptions and disregards for some income, including for disabled people, are not sufficient to ensure access to justice and protect against poverty. Therefore, I am concerned about the increases and note the concerns of organisations including Inclusion Scotland and Citizens Advice Scotland.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Convener, I have some questions in other areas.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

My further question around the registrar general touches on the issue of age. The registrar general and the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland both spoke of the need for support. The registrar general, I think, said that there had been conversations with the cabinet secretary on the sort of support and on the organisations that would provide it to people, so that they could understand the effect of the gender recognition certificate. Cabinet secretary, can you say what those conversations have been and who you think those organisations might be? You mentioned that it could cost approximately £350,000 to set up the system, with on-going costs of £150,000. For some support, that could be considered quite a small amount. Will you set out the detail on that and on the role that young people will have in developing support and guidance?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I appreciate that answer, cabinet secretary, and I understand what implications the bill might or might not have for health services. However, we have heard in a number of evidence sessions about the experience of trans people in the round, and I thought that it would be helpful if we put that question to you today. Indeed, it would be remiss of us if we did not do so.

The bill contains a number of reporting mechanisms, and I note that those outlined for the registrar general for Scotland are considerably more restricted than they are for bodies elsewhere in the UK. I am thinking, for example, of the Ministry of Justice. Are you open to looking at further reporting mechanisms and collection of data on people’s date of birth, birth status and so on to get a clearer picture of people across Scotland, including on the number of trans people?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 June 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Yes, that would be helpful. Thank you.

The children’s commissioner spoke about the presumption in the children’s bill that children and young people have capacity to share their views with the court. Would something similar be helpful in this bill?