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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 July 2025
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Displaying 2001 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Budget Savings and Reductions 2022-23

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

In reaching the decision that you have come to on the use of buses, did you look at usage during the Covid pandemic, and did you look at comparable years before that? It strikes me—I am sure that you will appreciate this with your Covid recovery hat on—that disabled people and older people have been more reticent about going back to using buses. I would be worried if the amount was based on only very recent patronage.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Budget Savings and Reductions 2022-23

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

[Inaudible.]—Deputy First Minister, the question. I would love to debate those issues with you at length, but we do not have enough time to go into them. My questions were about how you made the decisions in the budget that you currently control. I would really appreciate reassurance on the record, because a number of organisations are looking for that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Budget Savings and Reductions 2022-23

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Those organisations would offer and have offered alternatives, so I would not characterise that as complaining; rather, it is a plea to be involved in the process. Witnesses last week and before have told us that the process was opaque and untransparent, and that they were not able to get involved in it. They want the reassurance that they will have a meaningful conversation with you about the budget.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you both for the evidence that you have given so far and for your submissions.

Most of my questions on the cost of living have already been covered, with the exception of one. How have not only your membership but your organisations been affected by the cost of living crisis?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Sorry, convener—perhaps we could start with Graham O’Neill.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Good morning. Thank you for your submissions and your answers so far.

My first question is for Frank McKillop. In a similar vein to my colleague Natalie Don, I wonder whether you can set out some of the realities of what disabled people are having to do in the cost of living crisis, particularly in relation to fuel poverty. How is it affecting what they do on a daily basis?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Sure. I will move on to the spending priorities.

Employability has already been mentioned—I think that Frank McKillop raised that issue. Frank, are you aware of any impact that the employability cuts will have on the employability services that you deliver?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you. That is really helpful and clear.

I have a similar question about spending priorities for Gordon MacRae. In your submission, you highlighted that there has been a 17 per cent rise in children’s homelessness. That is tragic. You also noted that the flat cash settlement is setting councils up to fail. Do you have concerns about any of the priorities in the recent DFM cuts or the flat cash settlements in relation to the “Tackling Child Poverty Delivery Plan 2022-26”, particularly in housing?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Budget Savings and Reductions 2022-23

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I have one further question in that area. You have set out that there is already a process for you to engage with such organisations. However, last week, the committee heard from the Scottish Human Rights Commission that it

“was not a brilliant process”.—[Official Report, Social Justice and Social Security Committee, 22 September 2022; c 7.]

That is where my concerns lie. On a good day, we rely on processes being really good. On a difficult day—I am sure that the decisions that you were taking were difficult—if a process is not quite up to scratch, that makes it all the worse.

Given that, and given what we also heard about the third sector’s concerns—for example, about the ability of the no one left behind approach to have dealt with capacity in the first place—what could you do between now and bringing in the emergency budget to reassure such organisations that you will take account of the issues and needs of the people they represent?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Budget Savings and Reductions 2022-23

Meeting date: 29 September 2022

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I do, and I can run it on if that is helpful.

Mr Swinney, I hear you say that the current level of service will continue but there will not be as big an increase in the budget. That worries me, because the current level of service still delivers high numbers of unemployed disabled people in Scotland. Therefore, putting in the money in the first place would have been helpful and taking it out now will have serious consequences. The SHRC said last week that doing so removes a poverty prevention method, so I worry about the impact of this on disabled people’s poverty.

Have you considered that? Will you consider it in the emergency budget review? Do you have any indication of the impact that it might have on the Scottish Government’s targets to close the disability employment gap?