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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 2015 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Is there any reason why the bill could not replicate SAAB in the structure that it will put in? It does not do that now, but is there any reason why it could not do that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I appreciate that.

I want to talk a little bit about the equalities aspects. Paul, you just mentioned the SAAB equalities sub-group, and I will return to that. I will start, however, with a question for Carolyn. Thank you for your evidence, which is very important. What I have heard is that the current system is not serving women well. Should there be duties in the bill to mandate, for example, data on participation and achievement disaggregated by gender and background?

12:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

If it is all right, convener, I will put my questions on SAAB to Paul Campbell and then move on to my questions about equalities. Does that work?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Thank you for throwing me that line, Mr Davenport—that was helpful. Another explanation is that I might have paraphrased part of your submission. I was interested in unpicking the part of it where you say:

“Integration has been key to that success, and breaking up SDS is a threat to it.”

You alluded to that earlier. You go on to say:

“If the goal is greater efficiency, it must be understood that breaking off part of SDS, while potentially streamlining one element of funding, will introduce far greater inefficiencies elsewhere.”

That is the part of your submission, which I described as the existence of a vacuum, that I wanted to unpick.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

That is a good point that the committee will reflect on. It could be helpful for us to look at some of the suggestions that come out of that inquiry to see whether we need to do anything with the bill.

Nicola Jackson, do you have a view?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I thank the panel for the evidence that they provided in advance and the evidence that they have given today.

Paul, I want to explore with you the concerns that we have heard in our inquiry, but also in other areas and other spaces, about the winding down of the board. What has been communicated to you and the members of the board, and what has been communicated to employer and apprentice voices, during the transition?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I presume that, if the structural changes that the bill proposes remain, you will be included in the committees and the proposed employer network within the SFC. How would that affect you?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I had wanted to explore some of the engagement with staff, but I think that we have done so already, which has been helpful.

I have only one other question outstanding. Liam, in your evidence, you said there was an impending organisational vacuum with large-scale changes taking place without the planning or resources necessary to manage them safely or fairly. Can you tell us what you mean by “organisational vacuum”?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

I will ask about some of the powers in the bill around finance, accountability and fair work.

In your submissions, you have all highlighted concern about the SFC’s powers undermining academic freedoms. Everyone has picked up on that point, which we need to consider.

Nicola Jackson, you said that you support financial oversight of post-16 institutions, but that it must be linked to fair work outcomes and public accountability. Mary Senior, your submission highlighted that it is important to ensure that all education providers that receive public funds meet national standards for quality, accountability and employability practices.

With that in mind, my question concerns the proposals that are included in the bill around the monitoring and reporting of matters relating to the financial sustainability of post-16 education bodies. To what extent do you think that the proposed powers could improve the SFC’s ability to identify at-risk institutions, for example, and how might the proposals be further strengthened?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 May 2025

Pam Duncan-Glancy

Does the bill need to be strengthened to do that? Mary Senior pointed out that we might want to wait until the Pamela Gillies report concludes in relation to responsibilities, but do you have any sense of what is needed to strengthen that accountability?