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I wish to clarify that the purpose of setting those matters out in this piece of legislation relates to the nature and purpose of the general bill. Domestic abuse is included in recognition of the evidence that the committee heard from various organisations, including Police Scotland, on the likelihood of more domestic abuse cases coming to the children’s hearings system. On that basis, I do not see any reason not to include that training as compulsory under legislation. The training that is given to panel members is of a high standard, but not all of it is mandatory and there is nothing in legislation to set what that training should include. Given the changes that the bill proposes, I think that it is particularly important to set that requirement in legislation at this time.

The minister will be aware that those plans are of an aggregate nature; they cover all young people in a particular local authority on a more general basis. The amendments from Martin Whitfield and me would apply the multi-agency approach to the specific child who is being considered at the time. The plans that the minister mentioned do not apply to individual children; they are plans that organisations put in place that say that referral agencies will be available to them. Our amendments will make the plans much more specific to an individual child and will ensure that agencies dispose of their duties in a way that is relevant to that child, not on a wider basis.

Thank you, minister, I appreciate that, and I appreciate the context of a handout amendment. It was more the content of the handout that I was seeking to get further assurance on.

However, on that basis, I am prepared not to press amendment 169 when asked. I am still considering moving the other amendments in my name that are in this group. Is this the appropriate time—not to move them but to talk to them?

I am slightly confused because, in her reasons not to support amendments 185 and 186, the minister set out, on the one hand, a range of measures that are available and said that there is already support in place, and, on the other, said that the requirements in the amendments would be unwieldy. Either we are close to being able to put the support into legislation and give people a right to it or we are far from being able to do that. I think that those two positions somewhat contradict each other.

To speak to Ruth Maguire’s point, it is important that we address the issues and the gaps that were highlighted to us. That is what amendment 185 seeks to do. It seeks to extend to the young person availability of legal aid—availability, incidentally; not necessarily delivery of legal aid or the making available of a lawyer in that space at that time—should it be required, particularly to address the gaps that my colleague Ruth Maguire highlighted and that I highlighted in my opening remarks around specific offences, such as those referred to in section 67 of the 2011 act. [Interruption.]

Yes, I will take an intervention.

Convener, before I do that, am I permitted to ask the minister a question about the commitment that she made to discuss amendment 169?

That is much appreciated.

Minister, you indicated that you would be willing to discuss amendment 169 and look at what we could put in place. Can you give me a bit more information about the parameters in which that discussion would take place, so that I have an understanding of how far the Government is prepared to move on the issue?

I thank the minister for her response, although I am not sure that it gives me much reassurance about amendment 169. I take the point that the minister is willing to discuss it.

On the basis that I am an optimist and that I am willing to consider what the minister has said on the record, which I hope will mean that we will get an amendment at stage 3 that looks at including trauma-informed practice, as amendment 169 suggests, I am prepared to hold my position on that.

Will the member take an intervention?

Good morning, colleagues. My amendment 172 would put a duty on the principal reporter, in a case in which he or she identifies that a child who is subject to proceedings

“has, or is likely to have, a close connection with a person who has”

carried out domestic abuse under section 66(2) of the Children’s Hearings (Scotland) Act 2011, to refer that young person

“to a provider that specialises in domestic abuse support.”

I believe that the amendment acknowledges the unique vulnerabilities that children in situations of domestic abuse have and that those who witness domestic abuse can suffer emotional, psychological and developmental challenges.

The amendment emphasises the need for targeted intervention that is delivered by appropriate professionals who are equipped to address the needs that can be born out of the complex trauma that those children face. It would also provide an opportunity for early intervention by having a touch point early on in the state’s involvement with a referral, and to take an approach that I believe should be replicated across legislation, where appropriate.

I urge colleagues to support my amendment. I also encourage them to support Martin Whitfield’s and Miles Briggs’s amendments in the group.

I understand that some decisions will need to be taken on the basis that the minister has just described, but that is how equalities legislation works in general. It is not about treating everybody entirely the same, but about making sure that people get equal access to various opportunities and that they are treated similarly in systems. To me, that represents a bit of a misunderstanding of how equalities legislation would operate.