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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 November 2025
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Displaying 1219 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

That is fair enough. Thank you.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

I will come back in on the point around clause 8 and legislative hierarchy. Clause 8 relates to the removal of the principle of supremacy of EU law. Clause 4 reverses the principle that retained EU law takes precedence over incompatible domestic law. The power in clause 8 will enable ministers to specify that the reversal of the principle does not apply to specific pieces of domestic law and retained EU law and, therefore, that retained EU law continues to take precedence. That will allow ministers to retain the existing hierarchy where that is desirable in order to avoid unintended consequences or to ensure continuity.

The power in clause 8 is exercisable by Scottish and UK ministers in areas of devolved competence. UK ministers are therefore given the power to set the interpretative hierarchy that applies to legislation in devolved areas—bearing in mind that the devolution settlement was never designed with the presumption that we would end up being outside the EU, which has caused disruption.

Do you have any comments to offer on that? I will start with Dr Tucker.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

That is helpful—thank you, Dr Tucker. Sir Jonathan, do you have anything further to add?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

That is certainly helpful. It begs more questions than answers, but I guess that that is just a sign of the constitutional immaturity of the way in which the UK Government is proceeding.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

To hear it put as starkly as that—that Parliament will have no capacity to scrutinise that—was powerful.

There is also the point that ministers will not be able to use the revocation replacement powers to increase regulatory burdens. The Hansard Society has stated that that

“is tantamount, with just a few caveats, to a ‘do anything we want’ power for Ministers”,

and that clause 15(5)

“imposes what amounts to a regulatory ceiling. This is contrary to previous claims from UK Ministers that in some areas REUL might be amended to enhance regulatory requirements (e.g., in the field of animal welfare).”

In your view, Sir Jonathan, will that preclude ministers from improving the standards, rights and protections that are currently enshrined in retained EU law?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

I appreciate that, Sir Jonathan. Dr Tucker, do you have a view on the ratcheting effect, which can move only in one direction if the use of secondary powers for enhancements is not available?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

It seems as though the power of determining that is entirely with the executive, and therein lies the risk of democratic overreach.

I emphasise that the UK Government’s position is—this is stated in the note from the Cabinet Office—that

“the power is required as there are approximately 2000 pieces of secondary retained EU law, including RDEUL, that the Government may wish to replace with legislation more suited to the UK’s needs. Doing so purely through sector specific primary legislation would take a significant amount of Parliamentary time.”

Its justification is that there is not enough capacity in the Parliament to handle that process. I assume, and you might agree, that that is an overly generalised position and that there probably is more capacity and a bit more nuance to it all. Do you agree, Sir Jonathan?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

Before he does, I will add a supplementary question. If ministers were to choose not to bring forward replacement legislation, would there be any opportunity at all for Parliament to scrutinise their decision? Please also feel free to make a general comment in relation to the discussion so far.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

Morag Ross, do you have any points to add?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Meeting date: 13 December 2022

Paul Sweeney

That is quite an alarming realisation—that there could potentially be wholesale destruction of legislation in that way.