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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 6834 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

I know what you mean about feeling that there is another level. I have certainly had that feeling when I have been involved in a discussion and, at a certain point, it has felt as though the decision has been made somewhere else.

I want to drill down a bit on the issue that Fulton MacGregor raised. Is Unison or another trade union involved in the Scottish Government’s public service reform board? Are you aware of that?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

I am glad that I asked the question, because a four-day working week would seem to be a positive response to the issues of sickness and recruitment and retention, which Alexander Stewart asked about. If we move to a four-day working week, as well as making it more appealing for people to come in, that could help with the sickness issue, because it would enable people to get some proper downtime. As you said, people’s work-life balance also comes into play.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

The second item on our agenda is an evidence session as part of our pre-budget scrutiny. I remind everyone that the committee has agreed to focus on public service reform. This is the third of our evidence sessions. Today, we are joined by Maureen Dickson, regional organiser, and John Mooney, also a regional organiser, both from Unison. I welcome you to the meeting. There is no need for you to operate your microphones—we will do that for you.

We will just throw our questions out and one or other of you can pick them up. I will start. We have three themes to go through: budget and funding trends; workforce issues; and the approach to transformation.

So far in our evidence sessions, we have heard that, off the back of the Verity house agreement and the conversations around that, ring fencing has decreased. We also hear that, off the back of the United Kingdom Government’s spending review, multiyear funding could be an option in the upcoming budget. I am interested to hear about what you have seen in terms of that change in ring fencing and the potential for multiyear funding. Who wants to pick that one up first?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Good morning, and welcome to the 24th meeting in 2025 of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. I remind all members and witnesses to ensure that their devices are on silent. We have received apologies from Mark Griffin MSP, Meghan Gallacher MSP and Willie Coffey MSP. Fulton MacGregor joins us online this morning.

Under the first item on our agenda does the committee agree to take items 3, 4 and 5 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Thanks. Do you have anything to add, Maureen?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

You covered that well, John. You started to touch on the impact on your members, and I am interested to hear your thoughts on the impact of previous spending decisions on service users and employees. Could you expand on your view of that?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Is there something about organisational structures and how different organisations with their different governance structures come together? I also wonder whether there is something about skill sets. Maureen, you mentioned conflict arising at times. Do we have the skill set in the workforce, and maybe coming up through school, that enables people to sit well with conflict and with disagreement—to agree to disagree, essentially. If, ultimately, we are trying to create a more collaborative culture for public service reform, maybe we need to look at skills development and supporting people with negotiating in those spaces.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Hang on a minute. I have one as well. Fulton, do you want to continue with that line of questioning or do you want to move on? We have supplementary questions on collaboration.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Let us hold off on doing that for now and put the supplementary questions on collaboration. Alexander, do you want to come in? I might have something to put to the witnesses as well.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

I will bring in another thread to the conversation that you have both touched on—John, you can weave this into anything else that you would like to come back in with. From the conversations that we have been having, we are aware of an increased level of dissatisfaction with council services. What do you think of the idea of having a national conversation with people? As you have said, there has been a big shift in the focus, with education services and social work services certainly taking the bulk of the budget. Are most people aware that that is what has happened in their local authority area? Perhaps when they look at cuts to leisure services or libraries, for example, they are not aware of the greater demand weighing on councils. Do we need to start to talk to people more about that shift?