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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 September 2025
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Displaying 5835 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

Thank you. Do you want to add anything, Mr FitzPatrick?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

I want to pick up on another thing that is, in a way, related to workforce planning. I think that it was Simon Cameron who said earlier that it is not what we do but how we do it. One thing that I have become really aware of on this committee is the number of plans that a council has to come forward with because of—to go back to what we were talking about earlier in our conversation—the number of bills, including members’ bills, and associated amendments that are introduced. A bill often contains a requirement for there to be a plan, and it has come up in committee before that there is a level of onerousness in those plans. I am also beginning to wonder whether there is coherence in the plans across various bits of legislation. It is early days, but is that being discussed under the agreement, in particular in your agreed shared programme of activity? Are you looking at creating that coherence?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

We would welcome that detail being provided at another time.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

It is good to know that those mechanisms and communication forums are in place.

That brings us to the end of our session this morning. I really appreciate your coming today. It has been very useful. I have been sitting here feeling great delight to have both the Scottish Government and COSLA represented in the conversation. That is the fruition of the new deal with local government. It is good to hear that it has been positive and constructive so far. Thank you so much for joining us.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

I want to pick up on that. You talk about creating

“an environment where everyone feels valued.”

We have also been using the word “efficiency”. There is something there: there is a bit of a tension around needing to move to efficiencies and creating a service that works in a more efficient way. When I talk to members of the local government workforce, I pick up from them that, sometimes, efficiency runs counter to their feeling that they can do the job in the way that they need to do it. The idea of people-centred services is important in this regard. When we move to too much efficiency in a people-centred service, the two do not quite match up. Have you any thoughts about that?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

That is good to hear. We would welcome hearing where you get to in that conversation. At some point, the Parliament needs to be involved in that. If there are amendments from members, there needs to be greater understanding, as you said, of their impacts. Maybe, at some point, there will be a moment when Parliament needs to get involved, so there will have to be education on and understanding of the impacts of amendments.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

The next item on our agenda is to take evidence as part of our pre-budget scrutiny. Before we do so, I invite Marie McNair to make a declaration of interests.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

Yes, that would be welcome.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

Obviously, the new deal with local government is reflected in the fact that you are both here today. I think that you said that in your opening statement, minister. What are the key ways in which the new deal can support local authorities in addressing the workforce challenges? Again, I will start with Councillor Hagmann.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Ariane Burgess

We need to move on.