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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 4 November 2025
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Displaying 6041 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

Could you imagine a situation in which somebody applied to a scheme because they wanted to install animal production infrastructure that was polluting, but their land was close to a river and there were run-off problems? One purpose of the bill is to encourage nature restoration, climate mitigation and so on through regenerative agricultural practices. Could you envisage a scenario in which that would not be in the public interest and support payment was refused?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

My question is about continuing professional development—we have skipped forward. I would be interested in understanding how the Scottish Government anticipates using the powers relating to CPD. With the move to regenerative agriculture, nature restoration and climate mitigation and adaptation, farmers and crofters will need training, knowledge exchange and other support in order to meet the higher standards in tiers 2, 3 and 4. I would be interested to hear what the thinking is—this is maybe beyond the scope of the bill—on whether sufficient funds are allocated to CPD to ensure the transition to the new framework and whether it is a just transition.

11:00  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

Will meeting fair work standards, including paying the agricultural living wage, be a possible condition for support under the new scheme?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

The bill says that the “matters to be considered” under the rural support plan include

“the proposals and policies contained in the climate change plan which relate to agriculture, forestry and rural land-use”.

Travel is a big issue for rural workers, and it is a big issue in terms of climate.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

I am glad that it is being considered somewhere.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

We have been asking questions about the four objectives of agricultural policy. I come back to the word “regenerative”, and the tensions that my colleague Kate Forbes brought up.

One thing in particular struck me when I was looking at the four objectives. Taking a broad-brush definition of “regenerative”, my understanding of why producers have moved away from talking about sustainable practice is that, given that nature has degraded so much and we are facing such massive issues around meeting our climate emissions targets, simply sustaining our practices is no longer possible, so we need to be doing regenerative agriculture. My understanding of that is that it means practising a form of agriculture that supports the natural environment to regenerate, while meeting human needs.

It is interesting to me that that is set out as a separate thing. I would have thought that regenerative agriculture policy practices would give us high-quality food and lead to nature restoration and climate mitigation and adaptation—you spoke to that a little bit—and would support enabling rural communities to thrive.

I would like to hear a bit about your thinking around regenerative agriculture. I know that you want to keep the objectives broad for possible changes, depending on circumstances in the future, but I want to understand how you see that objective connecting to all the policies that underpin it.

My colleague Kate Forbes referred to sustainable agriculture in a way that implied economic sustainability. We really need to be talking about sustainable and regenerative agriculture in terms of what we are doing for nature restoration and for climate adaptation and mitigation.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

It says in our papers:

“Ministers may amend the plan if strategic priorities change or the plan becomes inaccurate or incomplete”.

We have already discussed the need for flexibility in the face of the climate and nature emergency, but I just wanted to hear how you have thought that need through. What kinds of things would trigger the review of a plan? I just want to understand your thinking in that respect.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

I will follow on from Rhoda Grant’s questions on the public interest. Is that in writing anywhere? Is there a set of criteria for what is in the public interest?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

It would not get there. Perhaps that was not the best example, but what I am trying to get at is that the direction of travel that we need to go in involves regenerative practices and supporting nature and climate mitigation and adaptation, so if somebody were to apply to a support scheme, I imagine that a criterion under the scheme would be to ensure that people were not continuing with practices in the opposite direction to what was sought to be achieved through the objectives.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Ariane Burgess

It seems to me that we will need to get that sorted out, if it is the basis on which people will get payments. As you have said, practices have changed.