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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 5714 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

Under agenda item 2, the committee will take evidence from two panels of witnesses on the Scottish Government’s 2024-25 budget. For our first panel, we are joined online by Councillor Katie Hagmann, resources spokesperson for the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, and we are joined in the room by Mirren Kelly, chief officer for local government finance at COSLA; and David Robertson, finance lead at the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers and chief executive of Scottish Borders Council. I welcome our witnesses to the meeting.

We will try to direct our questions to a specific witness where possible, but if you would like to come in, please indicate as much to the clerks. Councillor Hagmann, as you are participating virtually, you can do that by typing R in the chat function.

I will direct my first question to Councillor Hagmann initially. The Deputy First Minister told the Parliament that the 2024-25 revenue settlement represents a 5 per cent real-terms increase on last year’s budget. However, COSLA has stated that the settlement is actually a £62.7 million reduction over the year. The committee is interested in understanding how COSLA arrived at that figure and why it appears to be so different from the Scottish Government’s interpretation. At a meeting last year, we heard from the directors of finance that the provisional 2024-25 budget allocation should be compared against the final budget figures for 2023-24.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

Thanks very much. That experience at local authority level is why you ask such good questions.

I just want to note that we had quite a lot of food metaphors this morning, so we have had a cake and apples while we have been busy with all those numbers. Thanks so much for joining us this morning. [Interruption.] I have just been reminded that we also had pizza—I forgot about that one.

I briefly suspend the meeting to allow for a change of witnesses.

10:23 Meeting suspended.  

10:27 On resuming—  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

On our second panel, we are joined by Joe FitzPatrick, the Minister for Local Government Empowerment and Planning, and, from the Scottish Government, by Ian Storrie, who is the head of local government finance, and David Cowan, who is the head of regeneration and place.

I welcome you all to the meeting and invite Mr FitzPatrick to make a short opening statement.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

Do you have anything to add, David?

09:15  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

Thank you for coming along to give evidence, minister. I thank Ian Storrie, too; it was helpful to get the background and to hear about the process involved in the fiscal framework and the complexity that you have come up against over the months in which you have tried to develop it. There is a sense that, this time next year, we will—we hope—be in a different position.

Given that, at the start of the meeting, we agreed to take the next two items in private, I now close the public part of the meeting.

11:27 Meeting continued in private until 12:04.  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

Okay. David Robertson, do you have anything to add?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

Thank you, minister. You mentioned the Verity house agreement, which is our new deal with local government, and the three shared priorities. I am interested in understanding, from your perspective and that of the Scottish Government, how the 2024-25 budget, and specifically the local government settlement, will help local authorities to work towards the priorities that you outlined.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

That has raised a question for me. I do not necessarily expect anyone to have the answer to this, but I would like to know the root of the single-year approach. Obviously, it comes from the UK Government that the Scottish Government gets single-year funding and then there is a knock-on effect for local authorities. I wonder where that came from, historically. It is astounding that pretty much the whole of Scotland is run on a one-year budget. How can a country be run in that way? Do witnesses have any thoughts on that or understanding of it?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2024 of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. I remind all members and witnesses to ensure that their devices are on silent.

The first item on our agenda is to decide whether to take items 3 and 4 in private. Do members agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Ariane Burgess

Thank you. I will bring in Marie McNair.