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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 1 November 2025
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Displaying 5991 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Exactly.

We have come to the end of our questions. This is the first of a number of sessions that we will have on national planning framework 4, and it has been very helpful. Thank you very much for joining us.

I will briefly suspend the meeting to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

10:41 Meeting suspended.  

10:47 On resuming—  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I welcome our witnesses on our second and final panel this morning. I apologise for starting quite a bit later than we anticipated, but we had a good first discussion on the national planning framework with the previous panel.

We are joined in the room by Kevin Murphy, head of planning at Homes for Scotland, and Ailsa Raeburn, chair of Community Land Scotland. Online, we are joined by Tony Cain, policy manager at the Association of Local Authority Chief Housing Officers, otherwise known as ALACHO, and Donna Young, co-ordinator at Rural Housing Scotland. I welcome you all.

We will try to direct our questions to a specific person initially but, if you want to come in, please indicate to me or the clerks. Donna and Tony, you can do that by typing R in the chat function and we will bring you in. There is no need to operate your microphones—we will do that for you.

I will start with a question for Kevin Murphy. How have house builders changed their approach to development in light of the policy priorities set out in NPF4, particularly with regard to climate change and biodiversity?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I will throw that question to Tony Cain as well.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I do not know whether you were watching the previous evidence session, which was more focused on the planning side. When you apply for permission, is there any evidence that the planning authorities have changed their approach because of NPF4?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

When we produced NPF4, did we miss an opportunity to look at an urban framework and a rural one? Did we need to go there?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

There is a question that I meant to ask earlier that is less about local place plans and more about the funding part. Do you think that the rural and islands housing fund needs to be more flexible—to use the term that Ronnie MacRae used last week—in acknowledging the requirement for all the different pieces of work that need to go together, such as the bat report and so on? Do you think that the funding process needs to acknowledge that better?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Thanks. Ailsa, do you have anything to add?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I have a question on the place principle, which Donna Young touched on when she gave her example of people being told that a two-way street was needed but that did not suit the community. I am interested in hearing from others about that. To what extent does the place principle that underpins the NPF4 delivery plan actually guide the actions of planning departments, developers and others? What could be done to further embed that principle in decision making?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

That is a good point. Does anyone else want to comment on how the place principle is being delivered?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 7 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

The next item is to take evidence on the committee’s annual review of national planning framework 4 from two panels of witnesses. On our first panel, we are joined by Catriona Hill of the Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland, who is the chair of the Highlands and Islands Architects Association; Ailsa Macfarlane, who is the director of Built Environment Forum Scotland; Craig McLaren, who is the national planning improvement champion at the Improvement Service; and Jenny Munro, who is the policy and practice officer at the Royal Town Planning Institute Scotland. I welcome our witnesses this morning.

I remind members and those participating in the session that there are active legal proceedings concerning the interpretation of NPF4 policies and the interaction between those policies and existing local plans. Under the Parliament’s standing orders,

“A member may not in the proceedings of the Parliament refer to any matter in relation to which legal proceedings are active except to the extent permitted by the Presiding Officer.”

Although we do not wish the discussion and debate to be unduly restricted, I would ask members and witnesses to avoid referencing specific matters that are currently before the courts.

We turn to questions. We will try to direct our questions to specific witnesses where possible, but, if you want to come in on a question, please indicate that to me or the clerks. There is no need for you to turn your microphones on and off; we will do that for you. That is one less thing to think about.

I will begin with a couple of questions. I will direct this to you first, Ailsa Macfarlane, so you know that it is coming your way. We have heard calls for the Scottish Government to establish a hierarchy of NPF4 policy priorities, with the idea being that that would help decision makers and developers. Would you support the development of such a hierarchy and, if so, why?