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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 September 2025
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Displaying 5835 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Can I just come in? You are saying that on policy 1 there is uncertainty about how to respond to the nature requirements. Why is that so important? I think that people understand the climate emergency, but what is going on in nature that makes it so important and puts it at a high level and makes it the first thing that we come to when we read NPF4?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Thanks for your useful points. The challenge is that where the wind blows in Scotland there is a lot of peat.

I will bring in Gordon MacDonald with a couple of questions.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

The next item is to take evidence on the committee’s annual review of national planning framework 4 from two panels of witnesses. On our first panel, we are joined in the room by Ian Aikman, who is the chair of Heads of Planning Scotland, and David Givan, who is the chief planning officer at the City of Edinburgh Council. We are joined online by Morag Ferguson and Mairi Maciver, who are both planning managers at the Comhairle nan Eilean Siar. I welcome all the witnesses to our meeting. I love the backdrops of the witnesses who are online. Thank you for that—they are really lovely.

I remind members and those who are participating in the session that there are active legal proceedings concerning the interpretation of NPF4 policies and the interaction between those policies and existing local plans. Under the Parliament’s standing orders,

“A member may not in the proceedings of the Parliament refer to any matter in relation to which legal proceedings are active except to the extent permitted by the Presiding Officer.”

Although we do not wish the discussion and debate to be unduly restricted, I ask members and witnesses to avoid referencing specific matters that are currently before the courts.

We turn to questions. We will try to direct our questions to a specific witness where possible, but if you would like to come in please indicate that to the clerks. I ask Morag Ferguson and Mairi Maciver to indicate that they want to come in by typing R in the chat function. There is no need for you to turn your microphones on and off because our broadcast team will do that. Morag and Mairi should note that there might be a slight delay before their mic is turned on. Do not worry about that; we are aware of the pause.

I will begin with a couple of questions. I will direct the first question to Ian Aikman. The committee keeps on hearing calls for the Scottish Government to establish a hierarchy of NPF4 policy priorities. The idea of doing so would be to assist decision makers and developers. Do you think that that would be a good approach? If you do, why? If you do not, why not?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Great. There is some work to be done in that regard.

Pam Gosal needs to leave before the end of the meeting, so I will bring her in to ask a couple of questions.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I call Pam Gosal, who joins us online.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I want to bring in Morag Ferguson to see what is going on on brownfield sites in her part of Scotland.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Claire Daly, did you indicate that you wanted to come in?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

National Planning Framework 4 (Annual Review)

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Thanks very much. I will bring in Miles Briggs with a couple of questions.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 14 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

Does the committee otherwise agree that we do not wish to make any recommendation on the amendment order?

Members indicated agreement.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 8 May 2024

Ariane Burgess

I would like to comment on Colin Smyth’s two amendments in this group. Amendment 109 would place a duty on ministers to produce

“Indicators and targets ... for measuring progress”

against the bill’s objectives. Measuring progress is crucial, which is why I am in conversation with the Scottish Government about requiring the rural support plan to set out, among other things, how the monitoring and evaluation of support will be implemented. I believe that that is a better solution than putting targets into legislation.

The Government has made strong calls for the ability to adjust trajectories and alter plans and policies, given the fast-changing nature of the climate and nature emergencies and the volatile global food system. Colin Smyth’s amendment 150 would require the Scottish Government to “publish a statement” with detail on the distributional impact of each support scheme. I fully support the intention to encourage the Scottish Government to consider social justice and a just transition when it is designing farm support schemes, which is why I have lodged amendments on redistribution and the front loading of payments.

However, amendment 150 would not require ministers to enact the redistribution. It requires them to only publish a statement about the redistribution of support schemes after the fact. In order to ensure that schemes are designed to achieve policy objectives, including thriving rural communities and a just transition to sustainable and regenerative agriculture, I am exploring an amendment for stage 3 that could require an external body to conduct an assessment of the public value that the support schemes would deliver. I believe that it would be preferable for the assessment to be done by an external body rather than by the Scottish Government. Looking at agricultural support with fresh eyes may produce a more objective assessment.