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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 March 2026
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Displaying 738 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

That comes back to my point to the convener. The desire was expressed to have the ability to move efficiently. As we all know, parliamentary procedures can—rightly—take some time for the level of evidence taking and so on. I absolutely accept the point that has been made by campaigners, and by you, that a Government that was less sympathetic to treating abortion as healthcare could move in a different direction.

I am more than happy to speak to members between stage 1 and stage 2 about whether we have the balance right or whether we need to do other things to give people comfort that we have the relevant oversight for the bill.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

This is all about proportionality. If it was proportionate to reduce the zones, the Government would have to look at them in the same manner.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

The flexibility in the bill allows us to take targeted approaches, which would depend on where we saw activity in premises that are not currently among the 30 protected premises. We need to ensure that people have the ability to make their views known in other places.

I do not take for granted the potential coverage that could be created if all GP services and pharmacies were included. As I said, we are not seeing protests in such places at the moment. There is sufficient flexibility in the bill to take reasonable and targeted approaches, even for premises that are not currently among the 30 that the bill covers at the moment.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

Very few people offered any alternatives, and, often, the alternative that was suggested was simply not to have the zones at all. That probably chimes with some of the testimony that you have heard over the past few weeks, which suggests that, broadly, people’s position is either that we should have the zones or that we should have no zones.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

Can you clarify that a little? Can you give me a scenario?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

There will need to be parliamentary oversight. I will be happy to speak to members between stage 1 and stage 2 on what that might look like. During the consultation for the bill it emerged that people who access such services want us to be able to move quickly in relation to potential incidents. There is a balance to be struck between having parliamentary oversight and dealing with potential situations outside settings.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

The consultation was open between May and August 2022, and it received nearly 12,000 responses. Many respondents had very entrenched views, one way or the other. The consultation form asked a series of questions, and it included free-text boxes to enable people to give their opinions and further context around why their opinion was what it was on various measures in the bill. As a result, it took an awful long time to analyse all that data, but one theme that came out of the consultation was that people were very quick to make the whole issue about abortion itself, which is why I have been very clear that, for me, the bill is about access to healthcare services.

There was a real desire on the part of those who were in favour of the bill for a consistent approach to be taken across the country and for action to be taken quickly on any escalation of behaviour in various places.

The consultation was advertised through Parliament and through all the normal ways in which members’ bills are advertised, and the number of responses that we received gives some weight to the view that the consultation was wide.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

I will answer that question slightly back to front. One thing that came out strongly through the consultation was the point that, currently, women must be distressed and traumatised before we can take any action. The bill seeks to flip that around and to have a deterrent effect in the first place, which is very similar to the legislation in Northern Ireland and in England and Wales.

When I last spoke to officials in Northern Ireland, they had not had any arrests inside the zones as a result of the legislation. The bill would prevent women from being traumatised in the first place rather than there having to be a reaction afterwards. Sorry—what was the first part of your question?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

Existing law deals with criminal activity once it has happened, but—to come back to my earlier point—women have to be traumatised and distressed in the first place. We are seeking to ensure that the deterrent effect is in place so that women do not have to be traumatised as a result of getting healthcare that they are legally entitled to.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Gillian Mackay

No—you are fine.