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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 29 August 2025
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Displaying 2412 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

Right.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

I completely agree with you, convener, and I agree with the minister. Cultural change happens because of leadership—it takes leadership. I think that the new permanent secretary has been in place from around the time when the improvements began to become apparent. However, there is a long way to go. We acknowledge that there has been some improvement, but there is a long way to go on perhaps more strictly conforming adherence to the need for proper records to be kept in Government.

My concern about freedom of information, which I ask the minister to comment on, is that, when record keeping becomes a core function of the civil service and ministers see that appropriate records are kept—that is a very topical issue, and we will not engage with any of those topical issues; I have just been reminded not to engage with any of them—there is a danger that some information that ought to be recorded in documented records will no longer be recorded because it will be presented in a different way and not captured by the civil service requirement to record the information. I do not know whether the minister shares that concern. Does that make sense? That was very convoluted. I am simply concerned that some things will no longer be there because FOI and enhanced record keeping will mean that some of those conversations will simply disappear into the ether.

I did not mention deleted WhatsApp messages there.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

The issue is about the advice that is being given. I think that the convener was going in this direction, too. Spads were specifically mentioned. The general discussion about how the three options are arrived at should be a matter of ministerial record, too.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

I am grateful that you still think of me as middle-aged. [Laughter.]

I do not think that anyone will disagree with what you have just said. I completely agree that all the political parties in Scotland that are serious about engaging with the people of Scotland—and their priorities—have to look like the people of Scotland. The Scottish Conservatives have certainly taken some positive decisions in that direction, and I know that other parties have done so as well.

I also agree with your comments about not shoehorning people—on the basis of their sex—into specific committees. There is a natural dimension to that. People have passions and interests that they want to pursue, and, although they will curtail those in order to be part of the team, it is important that they also have opportunities to express themselves. That is why they came into public life.

On the issue of parliamentary reform in general, we have lots of discussions about how we could make very small adjustments to how we do things in the Parliament that would create all kinds of additional freedoms for members, including through expression in the chamber and opportunities to engage further with ministers through scrutiny—I know that you are a big advocate of ministerial scrutiny. What is your appetite in that regard, and what is the appetite of the Government for coming together with members across all parties so that we can agree that some of the proposed adjustments can be implemented?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

Minister, you know that I have a passion for reform and improvements to the way in which our Parliament works, in order to benefit the people of Scotland.

Recently, we have had the gender sensitive audit, and some recommendations flowed from that. I am interested to hear about your response to that report. More broadly—as the minister who is speaking for the Government—it would be good to hear what your appetite is for us to look at how we make Parliament more effective in its functions.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

That is because I recognise how big a part the SNP must play in making that reform happen, because the reform cannot be partisan.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

I welcome that comment, given my particular interest in this area.

Do you have ideas about how we might establish more channels between our parties outside the existing parliamentary processes, which can be a bit laborious at times in terms of how long things take, in order to progress this discussion so that we can find the common ground that definitely exists?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

So, the SNP does not have a particular position on that—it is entirely up to members.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

There is no doubt about the levels of toxicity—perhaps less so in Parliament but certainly on social media. Some of the comments that people post are more than just mildly threatening or disconcerting. I think that that is true for women candidates in particular, because of the nature of the threats that are made against them.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Minister for Parliamentary Business

Meeting date: 23 November 2023

Stephen Kerr

Overall, however, in Rutherglen, the returning officer’s report was encouraging, was it not?