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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 27 August 2025
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Displaying 2406 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

Oh dear, that is a very pessimistic view.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

Would it be a teaching space?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

What a museum should be is a very broad question, obviously. I like your description of coming at an issue from different directions. I did not feel that that was the case in the Kelvingrove exhibit that was specifically mentioned. I felt that it was a very single-directional sort of narrative, which led people to pretty bad conclusions about themselves, I think. That is the opposite of what you said. You were talking about how the institutions that you are involved in were causing people harm. We do not want the new ways to cause people harm, either.

I have probably taken up enough time.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

So, separate not in the sense of being distinct, but in the sense of being a separate part of something else that brings people through the door?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

Do you want to say a bit more about the importance of nuance in the way that we tell the story?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

I completely concur with everything that. you just said. It is important that we see the vileness and evil of slavery in the context of what else was happening and the complexity of that issue. That is a vital aspect of education. I am just expressing the concern, which perhaps other people also have, that we should not use this worthy endeavour as a vehicle for political activism, which I personally would not want to see our museum spaces or our schools being used overtly for. That is another point of view.

I started with the question about nuance because I would not like you to think that because I have those concerns, I am a racist or a fascist. In my view, I am neither.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

That is really good to hear.

Jatin Haria, you said a couple of things that I want to come back to you on, and others can comment. You mentioned the exhibit at Kelvingrove, which I have been to see. I came away with a lot of concerns about the stuff that I saw and what I read in the narratives that went along with the objects on display. That feeds into my broader concern, which I have already articulated.

Let me ask you about your frustration about the vote in Parliament that has not resulted in anything. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that happens quite a lot in the Scottish Parliament. We have votes on all kinds of things and nothing much changes. I assure you that I am as frustrated as you are about that. What would you like to see as the dedicated space? Are we talking about a standalone museum of slavery that tells the whole story of Scotland’s connection with slavery? As I made clear earlier, we all agree that slavery is an evil thing. Are we talking about a dedicated space within an existing institution? I am not sure that the motion was very explicit about what it meant by a dedicated space. What would that look like?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

I deliberately used the word “re-education”, because that is how some people might view that. That was behind the survey response that you gave, which Alexander Stewart highlighted.

I can see that other people want to come in. Sheila, do you want to come in?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

That was a very illuminating set of comments—

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Empire, Slavery and Scotland’s Museums

Meeting date: 28 November 2024

Stephen Kerr

Earlier, when I was listening to you, I must confess that I was concerned that you were not prepared to allow for nuance. I thought that you were describing people who did not quite see the world through your lenses as racist and fascist. That is not the case, is it?