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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 18 January 2026
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Displaying 3089 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Cabinet secretary, there are no records of any formal meetings between you and the board. There are no records of any formal meetings between you and the chairman of HES for the four-and-a-half years that you have been the cabinet secretary. Given the state of HES, particularly in the last 18 months or so, I consider that to be, frankly, a dereliction of duty on your part as an accountable member of the Scottish Government for that very important body.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

You have not attended a single board meeting.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Cabinet secretary, I think that it is right for the convener to have started the question session by focusing on concern for the staff of HES, but you are here this morning to account to the committee for your part in all this. Records show that previous cabinet secretaries, including Fiona Hyslop, met the HES board in person multiple times a year. Since your appointment, how many times have you personally met the board and in what format?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

That is very helpful because one of the elements of the triggering of the Auditor General’s section 22 report is the lack of an accountable officer in the organisation. If I understand you correctly, you have said that the board was fully engaged in a discussion with you about the lack of an accountable officer and that there were mutual suggestions about how that might be dealt with. Is that correct?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Right, and last week a board member said that that is Angus Robertson’s responsibility.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Can you confirm whether HES has at any time in the last year operated without a designated accountable officer?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Dear, oh dear. This is what passes for scrutiny.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

None.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

I just do not want the impression to be left that what the cabinet secretary is saying includes his active involvement in any of this, because it does not.

Can you confirm—

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 6 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

You say “at all levels”, but that is patently not the case, because you have not been engaged personally. “All levels” would include you, but you have not been in attendance at a single meeting. I find it really odd that you say that you requested that officials attend board meetings—I understand why you made that request—but you did not request that you meet the board. I simply point out that Fiona Hyslop, your predecessor, met the board in person at least twice a year—sometimes three times a year—and that is without the organisation being in a state of chaos and crisis. During the time that you have been cabinet secretary, particularly latterly, it has been clear that the organisation is in deep trouble, but you did not choose to meet the board in the way that you requested your officials to do. Why is that? Do you recognise that that absence of engagement undermines the visibility of ministerial accountability?