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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 October 2025
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Displaying 2676 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

I missed my cue completely—dear, oh dear.

Part of the problem that we face in the context of this discussion involves the consequences of Brexit. As the convener said, things were rolling along fairly calmly until we got to the point where we were legislating to depart from the European Union. At that point, all the working relationships that are necessary for these relationships to work without some sort of statutory backstop—if I may use that term in connection with departing the European Union—did not hold up, because all of the party-political positioning overwhelmed the need for a co-operative spirit.

Professor McEwen, in answer to a question a few minutes ago, you said, “we are not seeing that.” That is part of the problem with all this in the governmental relations stuff: everyone recognises that something needs to be in place, but we cannot see anything.

Paul Anderson, you said that we have the processes and structures in place. I am dubious about that, because I cannot see them. Everything is opaque. That does not lend itself to good working practice, does it?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

They tell us that there was a meeting—that is what they tell us.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

The process seems to depend on ad hocery, culture and the personalities involved. Personalities play a big part in politics—I understand that. Michael Gove and Fergus Ewing seem to get on well, for example, and Kate Forbes seems to get on with everybody she encounters in the UK Government. However, you cannot rest intergovernmental relations upon that structure.

Professor McEwen mentioned something that I am passionate about. The Dunlop review brought forward some pragmatic ideas about how to structure the working relations between ministers in the different levels of government in the United Kingdom. One of his many suggestions was the idea of having a secretariat. The fact that there is not a neutral secretariat to guide the path of those meetings, to set them up, to make them happen and to produce the documentation, is a weakness.

I am doing a lot of speaking and I should not be. You should be giving us evidence. Professor McEwen, do you have a view on that issue?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

I see that David Thomson wants to come in.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Can I follow up my question, first?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Yes—it would do, would it not?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

But to no effect—that is the point, is it not?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

The concern that Professor McEwen has shared is that this could all fall next March, when we are not here. Is that an informed view or is that just a concern that you have?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Okay. Does anyone want to add anything?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 2 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

I was being dismissive.