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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 October 2025
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Displaying 2676 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

It is. It is kind of the opposite of what we heard from Dundee.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

It is not dependent on structural change, is it? The way that you described it earlier is that it is about people and leadership—people taking the initiative to bring other people together to work on improving the delivery of a service.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

There is no denying that things can be improved; you are making that clear. However, you have also raised the spectre of the way that the public sector, in particular, often struggles with change and the delivery of change—it is a red flag, actually. Will you comment on that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

What I think I am hearing—if my interpretation and comprehension skills are what they should be—is that change is quite difficult to manage in your organisations, in terms of integration and working together. I am referring to the evidence that you have submitted in writing. For example, in its submission, North Lanarkshire IJB mentioned concern about the impact that the bill would have in that

“a significant change programme”

could

“cause ... partner bodies to look inwards for a period to address organisational concerns”.

Similarly, Dundee City Council mentioned that the proposed changes would “create greater complexity”, which would cause disruption in established working relationships. Am I interpreting that correctly? Can you help me?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

Can I hear some comments from other members of the panel on what I have just said? I quoted the Northern Alliance evidence, which says that children’s services will be swallowed up and lost in the context of adult services.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

I do not want to broaden it; I want to do exactly what you have suggested, convener.

First, I turn to Nicky Connor, who is from Fife Council. Your written evidence states:

“there is no evidence to including children’s services in a NCS and the disruption that structural reform would cause would be of benefit to children and young people.”

That is a stark comment. Would you like to elaborate?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

I will ask my last question and then we can go to Fiona.

The bill is an enabling bill and it contains very little detail about what a national care service would look like. Basically, we are told that the powers will be transferred to ministers and that we will find out at some future point the detail of what the national care service’s design and structures will look like. From your point of view, is that a sensible way to make the change that you have, in part, just advocated?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

Cameron-Wong gave a brilliant answer to the initial question about human rights, and I want to ask him about the commissioner’s latest report, in which some alarming concerns were raised around child protection and safeguarding. Would the bill enhance the commission’s concerns about those issues?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

A lot of that comes down to having trained people on the ground, which goes back to Jackie Irvine’s point. Early preventative intervention is often about being able to read a situation and knowing what to do next.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

I am having a very interesting conversation with Claire and am grateful to her.