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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 29 August 2025
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Displaying 2412 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Stephen Kerr

I am not hung up on a particular set of words; I am hung up on the idea that something has to be done to assure ministers that, when they make such drastic decisions, the provision exists for every child to access education and learning remotely. I know that John Mason shares my passion and commitment to ensuring that that happens.

There is great virtue in underscoring that commitment, which I hope we all share, by including it in the bill. I refer members again to the words of the Deputy First Minister when he talked about

“the barriers to education that too many children face”.

Those barriers became higher and larger—they grew in every dimension—during the pandemic. If the bill is to fulfil its purpose, as ministers have repeatedly stated, I hope that the Government will accept amendment 119. It seeks to ensure that, when schools are to be shut down for good reason, no child is left behind, and no young person’s educational pathway will be disrupted even more than it would be as a result of the closure of a school.

It aims to ensure that children and young people will not be denied access to learning, education or teachers—to some kind of educational experience—nor will they be denied, to quote John Swinney,

“access to the rich educational resources of the internet”.

We should all aspire to that for every child in Scotland, which is why I am passionate in moving amendment 119.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Stephen Kerr

Good morning, and welcome to the 15th meeting in 2022 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. The first item on our agenda is a one-off evidence session on the implementation of the policy to provide 1,140 hours of early learning and childcare.

I welcome Matthew Sweeney, policy manager for children and young people at the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities; Jane Brumpton, chief executive of Early Years Scotland; Adam Hall, programme manager for the recovery and delivery programme at the Improvement Service; Jonathan Broadbery, head of policy and communications at the National Day Nurseries Association; and Graeme McAlister, chief executive of the Scottish Childminding Association. All our panelists are joining us remotely for various reasons, most of which have to do with transport.

We have five panellists, so please do not feel that you all have to answer every question. When you want to say something, we want to hear from you. If you indicate in the chat box that you want to comment, we will make sure that you get in, but do not feel obliged to answer every question. I hope that that is helpful. My colleagues will direct their questions to one of you in the first instance so that we can keep things moving smoothly. It is not the same as being in the room, but we will try to replicate that as far as possible.

My first question is for Matthew Sweeney. What has worked well in the expansion of childcare hours?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Stephen Kerr

Jonathan Broadbery, can we hear your take on that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Stephen Kerr

I am just going on what Matthew Sweeney has said, with a great deal of transparency, about what everyone knew was going to happen, which is exactly what is happening.

At this point, I will bring in Bob Doris and then ask one last question.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Stephen Kerr

Are you now giving evidence, or are you asking a question?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Stephen Kerr

Michael Marra has a secondary line of questioning.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Stephen Kerr

It is very useful to hear that. Our next question is from Kaukab Stewart.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Stephen Kerr

Right. I will come back to Bob Doris later. I have made a note of members who want to come back with secondary lines of questioning if we have time.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Stephen Kerr

The extraordinary thing that we have learned from this morning’s evidence session is that this was deliberately designed into the policy. That is something that we should all contemplate.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Early Learning and Childcare: 1,140 Hours

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Stephen Kerr

I have one last question for the last minute. I am always concerned about outcomes. At the end of the day, that is what we have to be focused on—what improves, what changes and how did we do against the objectives that we set ourselves? From this morning, however, it is not clear to me who is doing the measuring of the outcomes over time. I will go round very quickly, and I ask for very short answers to this, please. Who is doing the vitally important work of measuring those outcomes?