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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 31 August 2025
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Displaying 2412 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

Jude makes an interesting point. I was struck by what Martin Crewe said about the four issues that he highlighted. Does anything in the bill do anything for the issues that you highlight?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

I have probably taken enough time, so I will stick with Vicky Irons for my last question.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

You talk about resources. Resources, particularly money and time, are finite. Jude Currie, given the challenges that were outlined so eloquently by Martin Crewe, is it wise that we take up time and money to do something that is basically structural, that will be process heavy and that will create new and challenging interfaces, particularly in relation to children’s services, which will be a small part of an overall service?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

That is not what the Northern Alliance said. In its evidence, it stated:

“The main risk of locating children’s social work and social care in the National Care Service is that they will become a very small component of a large complex organisation which has a predominantly adult focus.”

That is diametrically the opposite of what you have just said.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

Is that an argument for including children’s services in the NCS or is it an argument for the status quo?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

Is it sensible to do it that way round? Is it sensible to do it in the way that ministers are doing it, rather than our understanding the implications of a national care service during the passage of the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

It is. It is kind of the opposite of what we heard from Dundee.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

It is not dependent on structural change, is it? The way that you described it earlier is that it is about people and leadership—people taking the initiative to bring other people together to work on improving the delivery of a service.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

There is no denying that things can be improved; you are making that clear. However, you have also raised the spectre of the way that the public sector, in particular, often struggles with change and the delivery of change—it is a red flag, actually. Will you comment on that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Stephen Kerr

What I think I am hearing—if my interpretation and comprehension skills are what they should be—is that change is quite difficult to manage in your organisations, in terms of integration and working together. I am referring to the evidence that you have submitted in writing. For example, in its submission, North Lanarkshire IJB mentioned concern about the impact that the bill would have in that

“a significant change programme”

could

“cause ... partner bodies to look inwards for a period to address organisational concerns”.

Similarly, Dundee City Council mentioned that the proposed changes would “create greater complexity”, which would cause disruption in established working relationships. Am I interpreting that correctly? Can you help me?