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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 13 January 2026
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Displaying 3006 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Thereby hangs a tale. We have a system and a structure. It is looking through a glass darkly, to use a biblical phrase. Can we go to Hedydd Phylip? I hope that I am pronouncing your name properly, Hedydd.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

If they can agree anything.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

I am one of those colleagues whom Patrick Harvie identified as not trusting Governments. I believe that we need strong parliaments and transparency, which is why the language around the reset interests me. We are almost repeating the messages that the Labour Government is giving about an improvement in tone when the actual output evidence, based on the number of meetings that are being held within the structure, including the two meetings that have been held of the council of the nations and regions, suggests that there is more rhetoric than reality.

Can I have a quick around-the-table on the reset and what it means? No long answers are required, because I think that I already know the answer, but I would like to hear it from you, as academics.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Is there not a context to be considered here? Previous Governments, since 2016, were dealing with two epoch-type events with inadequate structures—hence the political crises that followed intergovernmental relations at every twist and turn. Brexit, of course, led pretty much to a breakdown of relationships between the Governments at times, and the other event was the pandemic. We are not in those situations now and we have structures, but the structures seem to be very loose.

You said earlier—I am not sure that I agree with this, but I am happy to quote it back to you—that informality is the modus operandi of our constitutional working. In fact, if you look at the work of a UK minister or even a Scottish minister, there is not a lot of informality about what they do. Everything is recorded—everything that they do and every meeting. The same formalities do not exist in these structures, even without the crises-making context of Brexit and the pandemic.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

I agree with the use of the phrase ad hoc, because that is exactly what we have. We have a form of structure but not actual structure, and we have ad hocery, which is how we seem to do everything.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Yes.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Andrew Dunlop’s review reported in 2022, and my reading of it was that the hinge upon which the structure would work, which would determine how the meetings would be conducted in terms of qualitative control as well as their frequency, was going to be an independent, outside secretariat. However, as has been touched on, the current secretariat is inside the Cabinet Office of the UK Government. An independent secretariat doing the work to make this happen has not been delivered.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Transparency of Intergovernmental Activity

Meeting date: 20 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

Yes, of course.

10:30  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

So, the vagueness exists for the secessionists, with regard to the route.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

Legal Mechanism for any Independence Referendum

Meeting date: 13 November 2025

Stephen Kerr

The permissiveness and vagueness work for both those who would wish to pursue a secessionist argument and those who would wish to retain the current constitutional arrangements.

10:30