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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 July 2025
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Displaying 885 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

We always do a sense check and risk assessments, but I refer to my earlier comment that we are taking a phased approach so that we are not applying undue pressure.

My expectations are clear. I am providing leadership through extensive engagement with duty bearers, public sector bodies and the equality networks. The messaging through that engagement is consistent and, I believe, wide and very clear. We have close connections and we communicate regularly, so we would be able to anticipate any tensions, barriers or hurdles that might arise, and we would plan accordingly, as you would expect—that would be good practice.

However, the short answer is no; I do not expect further delay. As Nick Bland said, a lot of the structural work that has allowed me to build the current momentum was done previously. I am mindful of that and grateful for it, and I am now taking it on to the next step. I am playing my role in the position that I am in at the moment.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

I have met many women who have suffered from domestic violence. I have visited—[Interruption.]—Rape Crisis Scotland, for instance. Forgive my hesitation; I was trying to think of the different organisations that I have met. I have spoken directly to those women and I think that the most important thing is that the service is based around the survivor and their needs. The law is quite clear that actions must be reasonable and proportionate. I have answered questions on that and my statement is on record. However, I can flesh it out a bit by saying that, of course, it should be person centred. If we take a human rights approach and look at the human who is in front of us, we can find ways around problems; that must be the starting point.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

I do not know for a fact that they are not. I cannot sit here and say that about every single hospital or local board. I do not think that it would be reasonable to expect me to have that information here and now. However, I will refer you to my earlier comments. If we start with dignity and fairness, and if we ensure that the measures that we take are proportionate, we can accommodate. Nobody, from any community at all, should be forced into an undignified position. I am very clear on that, and always have been, wherever it might happen on the public estate.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

I will have that conversation with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

I have made my position on that very clear several times in the chamber. We expect everyone to be following the equality act as well as the health and safety regulations. The position is absolutely clear.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

They are.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

I know that we are way over time, but it might be helpful for the committee’s understanding to bring in Jennifer Singerman, who could talk about the limitations of the public sector equality duty.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

Thank you for that, Ms White. It is not our role to do that, but you are right to point to the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

I understand that there might be differing perspectives between PSED duty bearers and equality organisations on the challenges of ensuring that the duty is as effective as possible. It is the responsibility of public authorities to properly comply with the duty, as well as with the relevant codes of practice and the other guidance that is published by the EHRC. I want to see more consistency in the compliance, and the expectation is that the PSED duty bearers should be embedding equality and human rights in their existing work. My responsibility is to ensure that we have strong scaffolding for that approach and to push for the cultural change that is needed to ensure that it is embedded.

I recognise that we all have that shared ambition, and it is important to remember that we are all trying to achieve the same thing and ensure that we get the right balance between the Government being supportive and ensuring that public authorities live up to their responsibilities in order to improve.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 18 March 2025

Kaukab Stewart

I confirm that, as I said in my opening statement, the work of the committee is incredibly valuable. You have taken a range of views, so taking on board your recommendations would be the responsible thing to do.

11:30