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I have made my position on that very clear several times in the chamber. We expect everyone to be following the equality act as well as the health and safety regulations. The position is absolutely clear.

They are.

I know that we are way over time, but it might be helpful for the committee’s understanding to bring in Jennifer Singerman, who could talk about the limitations of the public sector equality duty.

Thank you for that question. You have raised a very interesting point. You and I know that, whenever debates take place, a variety of organisations circulate briefings to all MSPs. As far as I am aware, that is standard practice.

On the issue regarding the legalities, I want to make full use of my team so that we get the position absolutely right. I will bring in Cat McMeeken on that issue.

I have met BEMIS several times as a strategic partner of the Scottish Government; indeed, prior to my being in this role, the Scottish Government worked with it effectively for many years, and we will continue to do so. We really value its work.

However, I am sorry to hear that it takes that view, and I do not agree with its assessment. I think that the Scottish Government has been very clear about our obligations under the Equality Act 2010 and, of course, the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination. We are very clear that one size does not fit all; indeed, if we thought that it did, the approach to anti-racism for racially minoritised communities would fail to deliver.

As you have said, the racialised outcomes are not experienced uniformly, and any effective interventions that we make have to be evidence based and take specific experiences into account. In your previous session, one of the EHRC witnesses raised the issue of Gypsy and Traveller communities; we have an action plan to drive positive change and tackle inequality for those communities across Scotland. We have put our money where our mouth is, with over £15 million having been—or committed to be—spent between 2021-22 and the recent 2024-25 budget, and there are loads of local projects on cultural aspects specifically but also on accommodation in six local authority areas.

We are clear that we work to the definition of race in the Equality Act 2010. As a Government, we do not exclude or include specific minorities when we talk about communities that experience racism or are racialised.

Thank you for that, Ms White. It is not our role to do that, but you are right to point to the Equality and Human Rights Commission.

I have met many women who have suffered from domestic violence. I have visited—[Interruption.]—Rape Crisis Scotland, for instance. Forgive my hesitation; I was trying to think of the different organisations that I have met. I have spoken directly to those women and I think that the most important thing is that the service is based around the survivor and their needs. The law is quite clear that actions must be reasonable and proportionate. I have answered questions on that and my statement is on record. However, I can flesh it out a bit by saying that, of course, it should be person centred. If we take a human rights approach and look at the human who is in front of us, we can find ways around problems; that must be the starting point.

Thank you, convener, and good morning, colleagues. I welcome the committee’s inquiry and the opportunity today to set out the range of actions that the Government is taking to advance equality and make the operation of the public sector equality duty and the Scotland-specific duties as effective as possible. The importance of such issues is highlighted at a time when efforts to advance equality, diversity and inclusion are under threat in many parts of the world. Now more than ever, Scotland must be a leader in demonstrating our commitment to continuing progress towards equality.

I want to make clear my commitment to using all measures to ensure that public authorities in Scotland properly embed equality and human rights into their delivery, with a clear focus on advancing equality, tackling discrimination and progressing the realisation of rights. That means using all available levers, which will involve both regulatory and non-regulatory change, and providing active and visible leadership. As Audit Scotland noted in evidence to the committee,

“The PSED on its own obviously cannot deliver everything”.—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 4 March 2025; c 29.]

I agree, and it is notable that the Scotland-specific duties are one of the few examples of equality legislation being devolved to the Parliament.

The Government will publish its mainstreaming equality and human rights strategy later this year, and its evidence-based framework sets out six drivers of change that we expect public authorities to use to direct their equality and human rights mainstreaming. Regulatory change is one such driver. The PSED and the Scotland-specific duties are important contributors to the change that the Government wants, but I recognise that there is some frustration among stakeholders about their effectiveness and impact. I recognise, too, that public authorities in Scotland are already doing good work to advance equality, but we have a collective responsibility to make our actions more effective.

I will set out my priorities in the areas where we are making good progress. I recognise the role of visible leadership from Government in order to drive change, so I have prioritised providing personal leadership on the PSED, both with my ministerial colleagues and in a series of meetings with public authorities. Those meetings have included the Scottish councils equality network, the non-departmental public bodies equality forum and more than 100 duty bearers whom I have met to communicate my expectations and ambition in setting equality outcomes. In all those meetings, I am raising the profile of the public sector equality duty, pushing for better equality impact assessments and stressing our collective responsibility to improve our equality framework.

However, we recognise that there remain systemic and structural barriers to equality mainstreaming, and the Government will publish its equality outcomes for 2025 to 2029 next month. They will deliberately focus on more effective impact assessment, better use of equality data and evidence, and application of lived experience as drivers of system change, as all those things are critical to generating lasting impact.

It is clear that there remains more work to do to build the competence of public authorities to effectively apply the public sector equality duty. We have commissioned the development of new inclusive communications tools and training, which will be delivered later in the year for the Scottish Government and other public authorities. That responds directly to calls from public bodies for more practical support and guidance that is informed by lived experience. To support the mainstreaming strategy, a toolkit of practical advice and support is being developed collaboratively with stakeholders. We have also been working closely with the Equality and Human Rights Commission on a range of projects, including learning sessions during our recent development academy week and a series of round-table meetings on outcome setting.

Looking ahead, we will set out by December this year how we plan to continue to improve the operation of the public sector equality duty in Scotland under regulation 12 of the Equality Act 2010 (Specific Duties) Regulations 2011, which relate to Scotland-specific duties, and I will consider the findings of your inquiry carefully when preparing that report. I look forward to a productive discussion on how we can make our equality regulations more effective and collectively create the society that we all wish to see.

I do not know for a fact that they are not. I cannot sit here and say that about every single hospital or local board. I do not think that it would be reasonable to expect me to have that information here and now. However, I will refer you to my earlier comments. If we start with dignity and fairness, and if we ensure that the measures that we take are proportionate, we can accommodate. Nobody, from any community at all, should be forced into an undignified position. I am very clear on that, and always have been, wherever it might happen on the public estate.

I will have that conversation with the Equality and Human Rights Commission.