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In my opening remarks, I acknowledged that organisations that are based in their communities, such as local councils, know what the local issues are. Those issues will vary, depending on the area, the landscape and the different demographics. We know that the skills, knowledge and expertise are there. We are all aware that, when communities are up against it—for example, when they face adverse weather conditions—people rally round, the support kicks in and we see people at their best.

However, I take on board what you say about the fact that the opportunity for more collaborative work to be done is not embedded when it should be. The Scottish Government encourages and supports the taking of a collaborative approach, although we must remember that councils are autonomous. We work in collaboration with them.

The public sector equality duty is in my portfolio, and the committee will be aware that, as part of that work, I am doing my absolute best to make sure that we set an expectation that councils fulfil their duties. As part of fulfilling their duties, they must work in collaboration with third sector organisations that are procured to provide particular services. Everybody needs to talk to one another. In its report, the SHRC encourages that, and we support those calls.

More widely, on 19 June 2025, the Scottish Government published “Scotland’s Public Service Reform Strategy”, in which we set out the detail of our vision and our priorities for reform. As set out in this year’s programme for government, we will publish a blueprint for community decision making by the end of this session of Parliament, which is not too far away. That should help to shape a different democratic future in which communities are further empowered to make more decisions for themselves. It is also worth noting that the Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill, which was introduced in March, is currently going through stage 1 of the parliamentary scrutiny process, which is being led by the Economy and Fair Work Committee.

Therefore, we are providing leadership and leading by example. We are also reminding public bodies about and reinforcing the importance of the equality duties that everybody has. In addition to the legislation that is in progress, there is the public service reform strategy.

The most important voice for measuring success is always the people’s voice. I have always said that a good model to follow is to triangulate everything with lived experience and to make sure that people’s actual experiences match the data and the strategies. That enables progress to be tracked.

People’s lived experiences are extremely important, and they need to be checked against the data. Those experiences might be based on perception, which is equally important. Sometimes, with certain communities, we might be looking at very small cohorts of people, so there needs to be a checking process. I always think that the best model is one in which the policy and the statistical data analysis that goes with it are cross-referenced with lived experience.

I am aware that we do regular surveys, so we might be able to provide some more information on that. I am aware that the Government carries out surveys on rural and island communities in particular. We check in to find out whether there have been any improvements and to hear about people’s experiences.

Is there anything that you wish to add, Anna?

It is important that people work across portfolios. I recognise that there are challenges, and I agree that one size does not and cannot fit all. I have visited projects from Dumfries to Harris, to speak to people and to hear about their real-life experiences, which has been highly informative.

However, I do not agree that the system is broken. I would characterise it as facing profound challenges, the impacts of which can be significant; I do not accept that it is broken.

In relation to the significant challenges that are faced, we have produced the rural delivery plan and the national islands plan. Some people have asked, “Why have two plans? Why not put everything in one plan?” The fact that we have two plans answers your question. It demonstrates that the issues that are faced in the Highlands and Islands can be very different from those that are experienced in rural areas such as Dumfries and Galloway. Although there are similarities, there will be differences—for instance, with the workforce, as well as in relation to access to transport, health and housing. There will be challenges with procurement and with the transportation of people and goods, which can cost a lot more. There are different modes of transport to think about, too—planes and ferries, as well as railways. I accept that the situation is different for everybody.

Like any organisation that has many different departments, the Government will always find it challenging to get people to work together, but I am confident that we are leading by example. Because cabinet secretaries and ministers are working together across portfolios, officials are doing that, too. For example, Trevor Owen is from my human rights portfolio, but Anna Densham covers rural matters and the Highlands and Islands area. Such cross-working already happens.

As you rightly say, when so many different elements rely on one another, there is a challenge in knowing which one should come first. Should it be transport, housing or jobs? The answer is that we need all of those. That is why, when we have strategic plans, they cover all those areas, which is why it is always very challenging to give quick, glib answers. I would love to be able to say, “This’ll fix it,” but even the people who have contributed to your inquiry recognise that it is a complex picture and that everything is interrelated. It takes time to produce systemic plans and to do that well and, over that time, other pressures emerge. I have mentioned the fact that, unfortunately, decisions that are made elsewhere can have an impact on progress.

I understand that people will always ask us to go faster, but I can assure you that that work is on-going.

You make a good point and, as I have said, I share your frustration. I can assure the committee that cross-portfolio and collaborative working is happening, but you will recognise the challenges of the multiple areas that are involved. Of the two plans, one is statutory, of course, but I will bring in Anna Densham to go into the technical detail of both.

Yes—of course we collect data. The public sector equality duty places the duty of data collection on bodies that provide services, and age is one of the data sets that we collect. The challenges, of course, include addressing depopulation, which is part of my portfolio. I have visited areas across Scotland that are suffering from depopulation and I see the impacts that that can have on what are often very small communities, where even losing one family can have a significant effect. Age is important across the board, from how many youngsters we have right through to the ageing population.

We know that Scotland has an ageing population. That brings additional challenges in areas such as health and social care, transport and independent living. It also reaches into other areas, such as the provision of social security safety nets and the need to address fuel poverty and look at accessible housing. It all fits together, and data is important in that regard. However, we must remember that data is people and we cannot just go by numbers. Sometimes you cannot extrapolate a trend because the data set is quite small. Therefore, we need to be aware of the demographic challenges and people’s lived experience through hearing about that via community engagement.

I do not know whether Anna Densham has anything further to add on the specifics of data collection. Please feel free to comment if you think that I have missed anything, Anna.

Yes—I apologise if I was ambiguous; that was not my intention. We do collect data on age—everyone providing a public service has that responsibility. We get that data through various means, including from service users. We have all the data sets available through the census, and we can use that information to extrapolate and regionalise. That data is available.

Yes. I will provide a bit of context. The main aim of my meetings with the cabinet secretaries was to remind them of the public sector equality duty, the need for impact assessments and the Equality Act 2010. Any obvious areas of overlap between my portfolio and theirs were raised, along with other issues. To be transparent, I note that the meetings often lasted only 30 minutes so they were not detailed discussions. When maternity services were discussed, they were raised in the round with other healthcare services and provision in regard to accessibility and availability in general terms.

All decisions on maternity care should ensure the safety of mothers and babies, and should ensure that women who are giving birth and their families always receive safe, person-centred maternity care that is suited to their needs. Decisions about the place of birth should be made by women in consultation with their midwife and obstetricians, taking account of individual need and the circumstances. As a Government, we expect all NHS boards to provide maternity services that are delivered as close to home as practical, balanced with the need to ensure the safety of mother and baby.

The newly established Scottish maternity and neonatal task force will review the provision of rural maternity services. Implementing initiatives such as the best start programme, introducing continuity of care, developing community hubs and the increased use of Near Me to allow for remote consultations and appointments, where appropriate, all aim to improve delivery of maternity services in rural areas.

If there are further specific technical questions for the health portfolio, I am happy to take those away and get a response from the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care.

I mentioned that the challenges are huge, including in transporting goods. When I visited Harris and Lewis, I saw at first hand machinery being used to drill down into enormously hard rock—specialised equipment is required, as well as the building materials. I also visited local builders who were taking part in apprenticeship schemes to increase the workforce. You can see how that becomes circular. If young people have good jobs—in that case, it was in the house building sector—they are more likely to stay and to add to the economy and build up communities. The challenges are absolutely massive, but we recognise that good-quality affordable housing is essential to attract and retain people. That links to the issue of having the right type of housing in the right place, bearing in mind the needs of young families as well as ageing populations.

We are building on the delivery of more than 12,000 affordable homes in rural and island communities between 2016 and March 2024. Earlier, I mentioned the figure of 110,000 affordable homes by 2032, with at least 10 per cent of those in rural and island communities. That is supported by the rural and islands housing action plan, which was published in October 2023 and which was developed with strong engagement from rural and island stakeholders. There are demand-led funds, such as the £30 million rural and island housing fund, which was recently extended to 2028, and the £25 million rural affordable homes for key workers fund. A range of things are going on.

The Scottish Government shares the committee’s ambition in that regard. We want to improve labour market outcomes and experiences for people living in rural and island communities. Through the no one left behind approach, we aim to deliver an all-age, place-based, person-centred model of employability, with support being provided across communities and a strengthened partnership approach that involves the Scottish Government and local government working together with public, private and third sector organisations to design and deliver services. To back that up, we are investing £90 million in 2025–26 in the delivery of devolved employability services across Scotland, including rural and island communities.

Addressing labour market shortages requires a collaborative, concerted approach from a range of services. We are implementing activity across Government and are committed to doing more. I look forward to reading the committee’s report and seeing your suggestions and recommendations.

Collectively, with partners, our aim is to build an employability system that tackles labour market inequalities by being more responsive and joined up and by aligning with the needs of employers and service provision, and which also ensures that the work is fair and accessible. Services are in place in all 32 local authorities, including rural and island areas, but we have to remember that full control over employment and industrial relations legislation remains reserved to the UK Parliament.

Yes, of course.