The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
Yes, please continue.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
Welcome to the 13th meeting in 2023 of the Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee. There are no apologies.
Our first agenda item is to decide whether to consider evidence in private under agenda item 3. Do we agree to do that?
Members indicated agreement.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
I think that Professor Boyle wanted to add something on your previous question.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
Before we come to the end of our session, I want to pick up on a couple of points that have been mentioned already.
Remedy and justice will look different for different people. For some people, taking a court challenge is the route that they wish to explore, but it might be that a remedy would also require non-legal routes. I am keen to hear the panel’s thoughts on what kind of non-legal routes would be open to people who wish to challenge any breaches. I will start with Dr Webster.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
So, it needs to be flexible, adaptable and responsive. I get that.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 23 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
That is very helpful.
A lot of people, including people with lived experience, might not have a concept of what dignity is. If they have lived without dignity, their expectations—if they have any at all—are going to be different. How would the participatory process ensure that people with lived experience understand what dignity is and live with dignity? Who monitors that? Dr Webster, I think that that question is for you.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 16 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
Reference has been made to the Scottish Government’s pilot of independent child trafficking guardians, the aim of which is to tackle child trafficking. Anyone who is under 18 who is suspected of being a victim, and unaccompanied asylum-seeking children, will be given a guardian. What is your experience of that?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 16 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
Oh, right.
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 16 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
However, you get the fact that a hotel room with, say, a double bed in it, will not necessarily have space for a crib and all the equipment that a newborn baby would require. It is a very vulnerable time for any mother, but especially for a mother who is fleeing from trauma and needs additional support services. What is the availability of the health and social care services that that mother and child will need?
Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee
Meeting date: 16 May 2023
Kaukab Stewart
Thank you for your answers. The evidence that I have heard—it is anecdotal and has been gathered through chats, but it is people’s lived experience, so it is entirely valid—is that, when there are tensions in the system and things are not working or go wrong, very vulnerable people have to rely on third-sector organisations or advocates to defend their case and fight their corner. You have given us a good outline of what you technically provide, and I am sure that you do provide that, but a common phrase that I have heard is, “Mears gets there in the end, but you have to fight for it.”
You are clearly very experienced at this—you run lots of outlets and do lots of things—so why are people still asking why you are not getting it right the first time? I am sure that that is what you want to do, so why is that not happening?