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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 August 2025
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Displaying 692 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

Hugh Dignon is telling me that that is correct, so I will let him come in and expand on that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

Your last point touches on the issue that, if there were not differences in how long people can apply for the licence for and the terms thereof, the difference would be theoretical. However, where the terms exist, I see that people might say, “Should I apply under the protection of livestock clause or under the environmental protection clause?”.

The terms of the licensing scheme are still to be developed, so it is difficult for me to give concrete responses to that. However, our purpose has been to reflect the ways in which people need to call on the use of dogs in land management throughout Scotland. Finding that there is a fox present in fields—and having to call on support for that—is a different matter from a large-scale environmental project about an invasive non-native species. We are not deliberately pursuing the idea that protection of livestock is not an environmental issue, because it is an environmental issue. There is a theoretical distinction—

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

NatureScot already has a relationship with land managers and will seek to foster it to make this work however we need it to. As I have said, although I do not think it is appropriate to put such a provision in the bill, I do not see why it should not be considered as the licensing scheme is developed.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

I have been thinking about that issue ever since I heard it being discussed. I understand that the reasoning behind it is to ensure that the shot happens as soon as possible and to avoid cruel and unlawful chasing and killing. It would be difficult to include something like that in the bill, because dogs are used in various circumstances, but it could be considered as the terms of the licensing scheme are developed.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

I have tried to say as clearly as possible that I am very keen not to rush the licensing scheme. I want it to be developed in consultation with stakeholders, including with those who will have to use it.

In due course, we will update Parliament on the timescale for all aspects of the bill to come into force. Hugh Dignon might want to say something about whether there is a formal point at which we might start developing the terms of the licensing scheme. We are already talking to stakeholders about that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

That estimate does not involve cost recovery, presently, but it could do so, if that was sought.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

Okay. I take your point. As I said, I have been watching quite closely what other people have said. I have seen a lot of support for the inclusion of rabbits within the definition of wild mammal. For the record, I know that Detective Sergeant Telford said:

“Police Scotland welcomes the inclusion of rabbits”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 22 June 2022; c 6.];

Chief Superintendent Mike Flynn said that the Scottish Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals

“welcomes the inclusion of rabbits”;

and Lord Bonomy said:

“On the definition of a wild mammal, my only comment is that it makes sense to protect rabbits for the reason that is given. To me, that is common sense.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 15 June 2022; c 13, 42.]

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

Yes.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Màiri McAllan

That links to the discussion that I understand the committee has had about a situation in which someone is walking their dog in the countryside. Exactly as Hugh described, hunting is an intentional act. If someone is walking their dog, and it chases a rabbit, hare or fox and kills it, the person has not committed a crime under the legislation, because they were not undertaking intentional hunting. That is not to say that if they repeatedly actively allowed their dog to do that, it could not eventually constitute something more, but if someone is walking their dog and it breaks free and chases and kills a mammal, that is not a crime under the bill.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 20 April 2022

Màiri McAllan

On the first part of your question, which raises a sound point, there are a number of provisions that the AHDB would previously have provided to the horticulture and potato sectors that I think people in those sectors would still regard as important, including work on the fight against blights, aphid monitoring and applications for emergency pesticide use. Such things were previously arranged on a collective basis and I think that, now, conversations will be had about how best those services can be provided in future.

You ask about the interaction that we have had with the board. In the consultation, it was clear that the work on the application of fertilisers was identified as very important. The AHDB will continue to provide that until 2023. We have responded to what was asked for in the consultation but, as I say, it is extremely important to respond to democratic wishes as they are expressed, and it is now for those industries to agree how they wish to organise themselves, and we, the AHDB and others in the four nations of the UK are here to continue working with them.