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For the two policy reasons that we have pursued the ban, which includes the fact that trail hunting is not a well-established practice in Scotland, I am content that it is a proportionate measure to take.

My officials and I have listened carefully to the discussion as it has played out. A range of issues have been brought up. Some of those have pertained to terms that are defined and terms that are not defined. I know that points have also been raised about whether we should have an additional offence of reckless conduct. I am listening to all of that, and I am happy to discuss any issues in particular.

The reckless conduct point was one that I thought about particularly closely because it went right to the core of what the offence is. Right now, we are proposing the offence of hunting and a second offence of knowingly permitting, and I understand that there were some calls for there to be an additional offence of reckless conduct. For me, the principal aim is to have clarity of expression and understanding, not only for those who would seek to use dogs in pursuit of legitimate activities but for law enforcement. When we add a degree of subjectivity with something such as reckless conduct, we are getting back into the ambiguities that were the problem in the 2002 act.

I place a lot of emphasis on the phrase “under control” in the bill, because that will be a key provision—it is central to the bill. When the bill is passed, it should be very clear to any observer or to anyone who wants to undertake control of wild mammals when they have the dogs under control and when they do not. That is what we were lacking before, and that is what I want to maintain in the bill. Those are just some examples, but if specific issues have been raised with the committee that you would like to speak to me about, I am more than happy to talk about them.

I also mentioned the issue of defining terms and not defining terms. Where the natural meaning of a term is quite straightforward, we have tried not to unnecessarily enclose it in a definition, because we know that when we try to do exhaustive definitions, things will naturally be missed. That will allow those who would seek to circumvent the provisions to say, “Well, I was undertaking an activity that was outwith your definition”. It just makes it more complicated, so we have tried to avoid doing that where we can.

My preconception is that the minimum number should be used to fulfil what is needed across the space of land, depending on its size and the issue at hand. I am not able to say what that number would be in the multitude of possible scenarios. The minimum number should be used to do the job in hand.

We have a financial memorandum, which was published with the bill. On the basis of that, and given the organisation’s experience of administering similar schemes, NatureScot has assured us that it has sufficient resources to develop and administer the scheme.

Sorry, convener—I did not realise that Hugh Dignon was trying to come in there.

We have to bother to distinguish because we are trying to make something work that has not worked up to now. It is incumbent on us to be specific about the circumstances in which it will be permissible to use an exception under a rule. We are trying to achieve clarity and specificity in the bill.

I am not saying that the protection of livestock is not an environmental issue, but there is a practical distinction between someone who requires assistance with the protection of livestock and a long-term project for the eradication of an invasive non-native species on an island. The welfare issues are not different, but they are different activities.

In case I have not expressed that clearly enough, I will hand over to my colleague Hugh Dignon to see whether he can add anything.

Yes. The Government considers carefully and scrutinises closely every law that it passes. The exceptions in the bill reflect what is required in rural Scotland as we understand it and as stakeholders tell us. The reasons why dogs are used are mixed. RSPB Scotland has welcomed the fact that there is an exception for environmental use because we must understand that, although we want to pursue the highest possible animal welfare standards for our wildlife, there are circumstances in which humans have to control wildlife.

For the purposes of today’s discussion about stage 1 of the bill, my answer is similar to my response to Jim Fairlie: all those issues are already being, and will continue to be, considered as the terms of the licence are developed. I am content at this stage that what is in the bill allows us to develop a licensing scheme that will be rigorous and which will cover what is needed. It is a framework at this point, and we will build on that through consultation and stakeholder engagement.

I know from speaking to stakeholders that one of the things that is most important to me is important to them, too—that is, that the licensing scheme is available where no other option exists. I think that that is pretty robust.

There is a provision in the bill to allow us to make supplementary changes, and if that section and the bill were passed, we could do it through that, so it would depend on whether that happens. I hope that my legal colleagues are not cringing at me making that assumption, but I think that that would be the provision through which it could be done.

I will go back to something that I tried to convey in my opening remarks about closing the loopholes of the Protection of Wild Mammals (Scotland) Act 2002 and how, equally, the bill is about taking the opportunity to ensure that more do not open. The issue of trail hunting falls squarely into that category.

We have decided to ban trail hunting for two reasons. First, we think that there is an animal welfare risk in that an animal that is trained to follow an animal-based scent can easily pick up the scent of an animal elsewhere and begin the chase and kill, which is exactly what we are trying to stop.

Secondly, we are trying to ban it because we have evidence from down south that trail hunting is being used as a cover for the continuance of illegal hunting, so we want to prevent that from beginning in Scotland. It is not a well-established practice, so that part of the bill ought not to be controversial or difficult. It is about ensuring that we do not allow more loopholes to open.