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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 2160 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Yes—SPT can continue with its work.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Yes. When we consider the legislative options, I would take that back to the cabinet secretary.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

If the regulations are to be annulled, I assure you that the rest of my day will be scrapped—let me put it that way. We will go away and have a long and detailed conversation about what will happen next. If the instrument was annulled, the panels would still be implemented and they would then be decided on entirely by the traffic commissioner, without any input from us. That would be the net result.

We would then have to consider whether that was a road that we were prepared to go down or whether we had to stop the approach in its entirety. That is why I am saying that we would be going back to square 1.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

It will be sometime in 2026-27.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I will not give any commitment about what I will do if the instrument is annulled. The only commitment that I can give you is that, if it is not annulled, I will certainly bring the guidance back to the committee so that you can scrutinise it. Other than that, I cannot give any other commitment.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I will restrain myself, convener.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I was not even sitting in the Parliament in 2019, so I cannot answer for the decision-making process at the time, but I trust the parliamentary procedure, and I trust that the people who look at regulations or acts as they are going forward do their due diligence. Therefore, we are where we are.

As for whether we should continue with this, we face a stark choice—either we do not continue with it or we do. If we do continue with the regulations, franchising will happen more quickly. If we do not continue with them, we will have to change primary legislation, which, as you know, is not the simplest thing to do and will require a great deal of time and energy.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

I am comfortable that it would be the traffic commissioner for Scotland, on the basis that we will be allowed to create a memorandum of understanding and guidance.

I remember the second part of your question now. The Secretary of State for Transport appoints the traffic commissioner for Scotland based on the fact that there are both devolved and reserved matters in traffic legislation in Scotland. I voted to come out of the UK in 2014. The result of staying in the UK is that, in 2024, we still have tie-ups with another Parliament. Therefore, we live within the bounds of what we voted for in 2014.

The proposal is not about taking powers away from the Scottish Government or from the Scottish Parliament. This is about the reality of the position that we are in: the traffic commissioner looks at reserved and devolved matters, so it is the UK Government’s right to say that the traffic commissioner for Scotland will be appointed by the secretary of state. One of my officials sits on the panel that will go through the process of employing someone in that role. Ultimately, it is a UK Government decision, because we voted to stay in the UK in 2014.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

Would I personally do that? I would not answer that question right now; I would go back and have a much broader look at everything right back to 2019. I have to be absolutely honest and say that I have not gone back and looked at the debates or the amendments or anything that was done leading up to the 2019 act. However, I reiterate that we are where we are today. Either we pass the regulations or we do not. On what will happen after that, we will just have to see where we go.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Jim Fairlie

SPT is aware that the SSI is on-going. My expectation would be that, if it was concerned, it would reach out and make its issues known.

I think that you are alluding to due diligence not having been done by the Government. I do not think that that is the case. We learned late on Friday that there was a motion to annul, so we are now sitting here on Tuesday morning. I spent my time speaking with officials and asking what the issues and problems are, how we could get around them and what the implications will be. Let us assume that we will get this SSI done and we can continue, but if we do not, we will have to go away and give it further consideration. I would not do that over one weekend; I would ensure that we give it proper consideration.