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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 June 2025
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Displaying 2089 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

I do not know whether you addressed this earlier. You have to find a balance for all the competing sectors. Does that mean that you will consult over the coming year in relation to 2023? Will you be able to get everybody in the room to thrash out the problems?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

I apologise to my fellow committee members and to the panel. Unfortunately, my internet connection has been terrible and I have lost large chunks of the evidence session, so I apologise if my question has already been asked. It is specifically for Dr Needle and the scientists.

Clearly, cod is a very sensitive animal when it comes to its spawning. We have differing and competing challenges in the cod box area. Do we want to save the cod in a way that means the socioeconomic impacts are not felt by humans, or is it better to find a solution that saves the cod, given its sensitivity to all the other activity that is going on around it?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

That is a fair point. However, in the evidence that we heard last week, everybody told us, “We want to save the cod.” It appears to me that, given the sensitivity of the animal that we are trying to save, the precautionary principle is the one that we would have to take. Is that correct?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

I am sorry, but I am hearing only bits and pieces of the conversation.

I urge the cabinet secretary to get the fishing communities into the room to talk to each other about what needs to be done for next year. I will not support the motion to annul, because the precautionary principle is correct in trying to protect the cod stocks. We have heard from every stakeholder. They have all said the same thing, which is that they want the cod stocks to be protected. Clearly, there have been issues with the process, so it would be great if that could be improved, but, at this point, I will not support the motion to annul.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

Thank you. That is the point that I was making.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

Let me rephrase the question. I am looking for the balance between the mitigations that we have to take in order to save the cod and the socioeconomic impacts that we are being told about by the fishing community. Should we just let the cod be fished out of existence, or do we actually want to save it?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

I am working very remotely and using a phone, which is quite tricky.

There are, undoubtedly, huge pressures on the fishing community right now, and, as Dr Allan just mentioned, Brexit is one of the biggest of those pressures. Through the earlier questioning, we have already established that the right thing to do, from an ecological point of view and to ensure that we do not take out a top predator, is to try to save cod. That being the case, we must take action to do so.

I do not know whether you were included in this, cabinet secretary, but, this week or last, all committee members were tagged in a Twitter thread in which competing interests in the cod box issue were—I will be polite—talking to each other. They were being less than polite; they were like ferrets in a sack. As far as I can see, that is because they simply cannot agree on anything. Maybe I am missing something, because I am not in a coastal community—I do not know. However, there seems to be a huge divergence of opinion on what the right way to go is to protect individual species and individual industries. How does the Government manage all those competing factions? Some folk want there to be no fishing, and other folk want their sector to be protected but are not too worried about other sectors. How can the Government be the guy in the middle and find the solutions to make sure that all interests are protected?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

On your earlier point about the science with regard to disturbance of the sea bed, it is my understanding that it is not aggregations that are causing the problem, as they were done away with a long time ago. Last week, I ask Professor Heath about the sensitivity of cod and whether any disturbance would lead to fewer young cod being hatched, and I was told that only two eggs needed to be hatched out of the million or so that a female lays. Just to reiterate the point that you made, cabinet secretary, I would imagine that any disturbance of a sensitive animal, whether it be a bird, a fish or whatever, during its spawning or breeding period would reduce the numbers of available youngsters that could go on and thrive. Is that a fair assessment?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

Are you saying that there would be unintended consequences for what would be available in the cod box if we allowed the cod to be fished out and it disappeared?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Jim Fairlie

Can everybody hear me?