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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 June 2025
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Displaying 2089 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

I can see a situation in which two dogs would be fine. For example, on the edge of an arable field with a very narrow shelter belt, two dogs go in at the bottom, and you have guns covering it, so that is fine. However, in much bigger areas, do you accept that more than two dogs would be required for environmental benefits as well as agricultural benefits, to make sure that the fox is flushed out safely? That question is for Ross.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

We know that the legislation can be fairly punitive. Vehicles and so on can be removed from your possession if it is proven that you have broken the law. The bill includes a provision to have a horse or horses removed from a convicted person’s possession. What are your views on that? Ian Duncan Miller, you will not have an issue with that, so I will ask Jake Swindells.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

That brings me to another point. The issue of blanket netting has been raised with me. If you are blanket netting, you will catch the rabbits, but—exactly as you said—you could have rabbits in a net for 10 or 15 minutes until they are eventually caught. Is that correct?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

Barrie Wade, I come back to you for a clarification.

As you all know, I have been involved in hill sheep farming for 30 years, so I know the business intimately. On the point that the convener has just made, I had a very good working relationship with NatureScot when it came to getting a licence to control ravens that were predating on our lambs.

On one of the points that Ariane Burgess made to you about dogs below ground, the only time that I have ever seen that going wrong and dogs coming out hurt has been when two dogs were down one burrow—the back dog pushes the front dog in and there is a fight. That is mishandling by a handler. If the handler is licensed, they will be careful about how they put dogs underground. The example I have just given is the only time that I have ever seen a dog getting into contact with a fox. Is that a fair assessment?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

I can see the value of that from your point of view, but looking at that from a farmer’s point of view, he will not have the capacity or financial capability to put those deterrents in place. Do your neighbours tell you that your keeping foxes and badgers out of the vast areas of land that you have actually puts more pressure on them?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

The point that I am trying to get to is that the bill allows for a two-year licence for organisations such as yours but limits to 14 days licences for farmers, who are basically trying to make a living. Ross Macleod, do you have a view on that?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

Would you be comfortable with that?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

I thank the witnesses for a very interesting and informative wee session on that point. I have questions for Barrie Wade and possibly Jake Swindells.

Ferreting is generally done with nets, but I understand that, occasionally, when ferrets are used, dogs will be used to catch the rabbits above ground. Last week, we were told by officials that that probably does not happen very much. Will you clarify for us whether that is still a method of rabbit control?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

Sair teeth.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 June 2022

Jim Fairlie

Jake Swindells has clearly understood my thought process.

If we take out the use of a dog to flush rabbits, we are then limited to using either guns or nets. I will play devil’s advocate. Why do you not net whenever you are doing a warren? In that way, you would take out the use of guns and dogs, so why not net everything?

I will let Barrie Wade go with that one, because I see that he is smiling wryly.