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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 June 2025
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Displaying 2089 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Avian Flu in Scotland

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

Sheila, you have been taken through the mill today. Hats off to you.

Has egg production in the country been affected by bird flu?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Avian Flu in Scotland

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

So, the reports that avian flu is causing the egg shortage are not entirely correct.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Avian Flu in Scotland

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

That is exactly the point that I was making—you have hit the nail on the head. In 2001, Scotland had a complete national shutdown because of foot-and-mouth disease, which devastated the industry. I remember that clearly, and it was a living hell. However, in 2007 there was a much smaller outbreak that could be contained in pockets. Is having independence crucial in making such decisions?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

I will try to rewind back to where we were. First, however, I emphasise the point about the purpose of the bill not being to stop hunting altogether or the ability for rough shooters to continue to carry out their activities, which they will do perfectly legitimately—with minor adaptations.

Last week, Ross Ewing gave what I think was a genuine position on the point that the general public might not understand the position. The bill will be announced in the public domain as “Hunting with dogs has now been banned.” Is there something that the Government can do to update the right of responsible access so that people understand that rough shooting is a legitimate thing to do in the countryside and does not fall within the bill, unless somebody is going to use it as a loophole? Is there something that the Government can do at a later stage to ensure that the public understand what the position of the bill is?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

That is absolutely correct. On that specific point, I will quote Detective Sergeant Billy Telford. He said:

“We have talked about evidence and so forth, but we will still be able to use common sense and a degree of judgment to ask whether, in the balance of probability, an activity is a legitimate ... shoot or something else. That commonsense approach will take into account the types of dogs that are used, too.”—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 23 November 2022; c 13.]

The police are already on board with how the bill is going to work. However, I understand the concern of Ross Ewing and others that the public might not understand it as well as we do. The convener’s point about being taken down so many rabbit holes—pardon the pun—of all the permutations that could or could not happen is what the shooting fraternity is coming back with in asking what will happen.

I understand that there is no way of legislating for all the possible scenarios but, given the way in which shoots are currently conducted, they will be able to manage themselves. Their concern is that the police will be called out every other day on some basis or other. There has to be an understanding that common sense will be applied and that the relationship between the police and the shooting community has to be a strong one. Do you accept that?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Avian Flu in Scotland

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

The problem, from the Government’s point of view, is that housing is not necessarily the thing that is going to stop the spread of the outbreak.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Avian Flu in Scotland

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

Okay. One other thing that slightly concerned me earlier is an issue that I was aware of although the implications had not really dawned on me. The vast majority of turkey producers in Scotland are small-scale producers and they will buy poults for finishing. Where do those poults come from?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Avian Flu in Scotland

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

The primary problem is price to producer.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Avian Flu in Scotland

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

That is helpful.

Going back to the implications of imposing housing orders, a lot of the stuff that we are hearing just now is about a demand to get the birds housed. Your comment about a factor of 44 versus a factor of 2 was telling. The housing order was the thing that was going to protect the birds. As a livestock keeper myself, I know that biosecurity is always the thing that we have to worry about. It is important that we get across the message that personal biosecurity is far more important than the actual housing, given that, as you say, there is a factor of 44 as against a factor of 2. Are we getting that message across adequately?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 30 November 2022

Jim Fairlie

Minister, last week, Robbie Marsland made the point that the purpose of not making the exemption for rough shoots is not about what is happening now and the legal way in which shoots are conducted now, but is about who might try to tag on to that and call something a rough shoot. During that evidence session, I became more comfortable with the way in which the bill is going on that basis. It is not about what is happening now—as you have just said, the people who conduct shoots at the moment do it in an effective and legal manner. We are talking about what would happen if people started to use such an exemption after the bill was implemented. Would that also be your concern?