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I am not convinced by Mr Mountain’s arguments.

Something sprung to mind when you said that the poultry would not be able to be sold beyond 31 December. Who will monitor what will happen to the birds that have been defrosted and cannot be sold? I presume that there will be various options. They could be minced down and put into burgers and sold in that way, or they could be sold as cooked products. What will happen if there is a surplus that has to be dumped? Who will monitor that?

I am not convinced by your argument, Mr Mountain.

I will probably go slightly off piste here, which the clerks always love.

Alastair Cook, you said that more resources have been put into mental health but that demand usually outstrips those resources. Anecdotally, I keep hearing that there is more and more demand for mental health services, and you guys will be able to confirm that demand is increasing. That is not always a result of Covid, because the issue was being spoken about before the pandemic. Why? What is wrong in society that we are seeing such an increase in the demand for those services? Is it because we are better at recognising mental health issues and that we are more accepting of them, or is something happening in society that is causing mental health issues?

It is.

That will be impacting on employability, the economy and the rest of it. Brian Whittle will probably come on to the issue of data—he always does the data stuff—but I will pre-empt him a wee bit, and he can then return to it. When Professor Aziz Sheikh spoke about the data that Scotland has, he said:

“My slight frustration is about the fact that in Scotland we have absolutely phenomenal data sets in the health space: no other country in the world has the data that we have. How do we now deploy the data beyond questions about whether vaccines are working? That would be a relatively straightforward move ... There is the wider question whether we can move to whole-system intelligence for NHS Scotland. That will be absolutely crucial if we want to improve services and begin to bend the cost curve. There is also the question about bringing health data—which are so rich—together with economic data, which could be done. Major investments have been made but, again, somebody senior needs to instruct the country to move in that direction.”—[Official Report, COVID-19 Recovery Committee, 10 November 2022; c 14.]

Is there a move towards using that world-beating data? Essentially, that is about health and economic inactivity. Is something being done in the Government’s ranks to determine how to use that data in order to get people back into work and to deal with the issues that we talked about, such as mental health?

If we get anything out of that process, that would be a good start.

I will change subject again. Has the Government taken account of the effect that menopause has on taking women out of the workplace environment?

Surely the whole point of the bill is that we trust and respect the people who are doing the job legitimately, and therefore the working relationship between NatureScot and the people carrying out these acts is such that they understand each other and know the areas that they are working in, and they will therefore come to a compromise on how the job should be done properly.

I have been thinking for some time about the issue of the number of guns used during a hunt, and I have voiced my concern on that.

From everything that we have heard in the committee, when it comes to actually killing a wild animal in a swift and humane way, the number of guns seems to be a vital part of the process. When I asked Lord Bonomy about that during stage 1 evidence sessions, he responded—as Rachael Hamilton has just cited—by saying:

“I think that the number of guns is vital”.—[Official Report, Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee, 15 June 2022; c 47.]

One of the examples that I gave during the evidence sessions was of a person who has only two guns covering 150 yards of forestry. The fox would run straight through the middle and would not be shot. However, if the number of guns was increased to, for example, 15, it would be more likely that the fox would be shot, so the loophole of allowing dogs to hunt and kill a fox would be closed.

My amendments 171 and 191 would amend sections 4 and 8, on licence provisions, to give specific examples of the kind of information that NatureScot can ask people to provide on their applications. That would be information on the number of dogs for which people are seeking permission and the number of guns that they intend to deploy. Amendments 157, 160, 172 and 173 carry on from that by amending both licensing sections so that NatureScot would have to require a minimum number of guns to be deployed when issuing a licence and put that number on the licence. That would mean that NatureScot would look at the information provided by the applicant and would make the decision on exactly what the minimum number of guns should be.

The principle of those amendments has been widely supported by a variety of stakeholders and committee members at stage 1. Stating in the bill what information may be required will give early notice to applicants of the type of information that will be required. The amendments could also assist in filling out some of the detail of the licensing framework—in particular, the type of information that applicants may require to include in their applications.

I know that Rachael Hamilton agrees with the principle, as she has lodged amendment 21, which is very similar to mine. It would amend section 4(2)(c) to include information that the relevant authority may require. My issue with Rachael Hamilton’s amendment, and the reason why I have lodged an alternative version, is that amendment 21 talks about

“the number of dogs or guns that would be ... licensed”.

I do not think that the wording is right in that the applicant would not know how many dogs or guns would be licensed, because that is a matter for the licensing authority to decide.

My amendment makes it clear that the applicant provides the information and then the licensing authority considers that information and reaches its decision. That might be to grant a licence for the number of dogs and guns that the applicant has stated on the form, or it might be to grant a licence for a different number. My amendment keeps the flexibility for the licensing authority to do just that.

I have also included the same requirement for section 8 licences, for environmental benefit, as for section 4 licences, on wildlife management, so that the requirements are consistent. It is absolutely right that the licensing authority has the final decision-making power for those licences, as it does for all other wildlife management licences.

It is important that we are clear about what we will expect under the licensing regime, which is why I have lodged the amendments. I hope that members agree and will support my amendments.

Will the member take an intervention on that point?