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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 December 2025
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Displaying 2580 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

The fair fares review is looking into all the systems and agreements that we have in place; when it reports, we will have another discussion.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

Good morning, convener, and thank you very much for having me along. I am very pleased to take on my new portfolio as Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity, which includes bus and concessionary travel, and I thank the committee for inviting me to discuss the draft order.

The order sets the reimbursement rate and capped level of funding for the national bus travel concession scheme for older and disabled persons in 2024-25, as well as the reimbursement rate for the national bus travel concession scheme for young persons in the coming financial year. In doing so, the order gives effect to the agreement that we reached in January with the Confederation of Passenger Transport, which represents Scottish bus operators.

The objective of the order is to enable operators to continue to be reimbursed for journeys that are made under the older and disabled persons scheme and the young persons scheme after the expiry of the current reimbursement provisions on 31 March 2024. It specifies the reimbursement rates for both schemes and the capped level of funding for the older and disabled persons scheme for the next financial year from 1 April 2024 to 31 March 2025.

The model for setting reimbursement rates for the older and disabled persons scheme was established in 2010. As a result of developments in the wider bus operating market since then, it was necessary to review the analytical assumptions that underpinned the model. A new model has now been developed for the older and disabled persons scheme, which considers the latest available data and evidence on industry costs, passenger demand and travel behaviours.

The evidence that is required to produce a refreshed YPS model is still emerging, as the scheme is still in its relative infancy and travel behaviours are continuing to develop. Accordingly, it was agreed with the CPT that the reimbursement rates for the young persons scheme for the current year will be retained for 2024-25. For the young persons scheme, the proposed reimbursement rates are 43.6 per cent of the adult single fare for journeys made by passengers aged five to 15, and 81.2 per cent of that fare for journeys made by 16 to 21-year-olds. As in the past year, a budget cap has not been set for the young persons scheme in 2024-25.

The proposed reimbursement rate in the financial year 2024-25 for the older and disabled persons scheme has been amended from 55.9 per cent to 55 per cent of the adult single fare, and the capped level of funding will be £203.5 million. A realistic level has been set, which takes into account patronage levels and recovery in the scheme since Covid-19.

The rates that have been set are consistent with the aims that are set out in the legislation that established both schemes: that bus operators should be no better and no worse off as a result of their participating in the schemes; and that they will provide a degree of stability for bus operators.

Free bus travel enables people to access local services and to get the health benefits of a more active lifestyle. It should also help to strengthen our response to the climate emergency, support our green recovery and embed sustainable travel habits in young people. The order provides that those benefits will continue for a further year on a basis that is fair for operators and affordable to taxpayers.

I commend the order to the committee, and I will be happy to answer any questions.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

Yes, but we have far better historical data for the older persons scheme.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

Yes, it can be shared with the committee.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

That will very much depend on the level of the cap and of the use. You are asking me to answer hypotheticals, Mr Simpson.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

Is what not written down in legislation?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

I think that I have already explained that. Let me see whether I can find this in writing so that it makes sense to you. If monitoring in-year suggests that the claims are likely to exceed the cap, claims for the latter part of the year are paid at a lower rate than that set out in the legislation, so as to keep total payments under the scheme within the statutory cap. If this was the case, Transport Scotland would write to operators as soon as possible during the financial year to let them know.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

We are in a situation in which we have a fixed budget—

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

I have not managed up to now.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Jim Fairlie

There is definitely scope for us to get more people on to buses. I think that your question alludes to how many people we can get on. We are going to encourage as many people as we possibly can.

The young persons scheme has been hugely successful from a number of points of view. It is allowing young people to take jobs that they would not have been able to do without the scheme. I heard about a young girl who lives in my constituency who is travelling to Edinburgh to work in a job in the arts that she would not have been able to do without the scheme. Young people are able to go to education facilities that they would not normally have been able to attend.

More important for me is that they can see family—because families are spread all over the country now. Young people are able to jump on a bus to go and see their grandparents. To me, that is absolutely fantastic, and it encourages use of public transport.

We want to make sure, as much as we possibly can, that more people get the opportunity to use buses. That is the benefit of the scheme. To answer your crystal ball question, I do not know what the figure will top out at. The more people the better, is what I would say.