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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 May 2025
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Displaying 3378 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Bill

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Forgive me, cabinet secretary, but may I put you on hold for a second? There is a slight procedural query that I am going to clarify.

I think that we have slightly jumped ahead. We will let you get to the correct part.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I will come in quickly before Russell Findlay asks his final question. On access to police information, we spoke with the PIRC about access to Police Scotland’s Centurion system. I take it that you have no access to that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I thank the cabinet secretary for joining us. I briefly suspend the meeting to allow for a change of witnesses.

09:51 Meeting suspended.  

09:54 On resuming—  

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you, cabinet secretary. I invite questions from members.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I am sure that there is a very small chance of it happening, but is there a risk that an officer’s status could change from being a witness to a suspect? That might present a slight challenge in relation to the duty of candour and compliance with a co-operative approach.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

It was criminal.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I welcome to the meeting Mr Justin Farrell, who is head of the criminal allegations against the police division of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. I thank Mr Farrell for providing written evidence. We are looking to spend an hour or so on this evidence session.

I will kick things off by following up on Sharon Dowey’s line of questioning with the PIRC a short time ago. This relates to criminal allegations against police officers. We are aware that a criminal allegation against a police officer would be reported to the Crown Office based on “a reasonable inference” that they have committed an offence—that is different from what happens with ordinary members of the public. How do you identify potentially malicious or vexatious complaints within the system, and how is it ensured that that identification takes place as early as possible in the process, so that officers are not subjected to lengthy and unnecessary investigations?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

That is interesting. Perhaps we underestimate the number of occasions when officers from outside the Police Scotland area are on duty in Scotland for a variety of reasons.

My final question relates to the duty of candour, which we discussed with the witnesses from the PIRC. You have responded to some questions on the delays experienced with investigations, and the PIRC has suggested incorporating a duty to co-operate into the duty of candour, under which officers would be required to provide operational statements timeously where their status is clearly that of a witness.

In relation to the introduction of a statutory duty of candour, can you advise whether CAAPD currently experiences issues arising from delayed statements—I think that the answer to that will probably be yes—or other information from Police Scotland, and whether the PIRC’s proposal on incorporating a requirement to produce operational statements would be helpful for CAAPD?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

That answer is helpful.

Russell Findlay can ask his final question on the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee

Criminal Justice Bill

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

A very good morning, and welcome to the 18th meeting in 2024 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have apologies from John Swinney. I welcome Jackie Dunbar to the meeting.

Our first item of business is an oral evidence-taking session on two legislative consent memoranda—LCM-S6-43 and LCM-S6-43a—that have been lodged by the Scottish Government in relation to the United Kingdom Criminal Justice Bill.

I welcome to the meeting the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs, Angela Constance, and Scottish Government officials. Ms Alison Morris is head of serious organised crime policy—divert and deter; Kristy Adams is a policy officer in the organised crime unit; and Ruth Swanson is a solicitor in the equalities and criminal justice division.

I refer members to paper 1. I intend to allow up to 20 minutes for this evidence session.

I invite the cabinet secretary to make some opening remarks on the legislative consent memoranda.