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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
As I said at the outset of our previous session with Pam Gosal, the Criminal Justice Committee regularly considers the issue of tackling violence against women and girls, which we take extremely seriously, as I am sure you know.
I will start with a general opening question, before bringing in Liam Kerr. As you will be aware, the minister said in a letter to the committee that
“There remain significant questions and concerns regarding the measures within the Bill and how they would work in practice, the extent to which they would deliver on the policy intent, and the associated financial implications.”
It is quite a broad question, but could you respond to those comments?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
I think that I am right in saying that your bill began its journey back in 2022. To what extent have you made sure that the figures that you are looking at on the cost implications are up to date? Secondly, I am interested in hearing what discussions you have had with justice partners with regard to the cost implications that they might face.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
I have another couple of questions. You have spoken about other models, such as those in Sweden and Northern Ireland. The consultation responses indicate that there is a significant amount of support for the bill’s provision that would more fully criminalise those who are seeking to buy sex. However, I am aware of the work that has been done on legislation in Northern Ireland which, essentially, did the same thing, in that it criminalised the purchase of sex. The Department of Justice commissioned an official review in 2019 which found that there was
“no evidence that the offence of purchasing sexual services has produced a downward pressure on demand for, or supply of, sexual services”.
What is your view on the Northern Ireland experience? How might that shape your thinking about the legislative provision in Scotland?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you. I will bring in other members, and I hand over to Liam Kerr.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Before I bring in Liam Kerr, I think that Rona Mackay has a supplementary question.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
I will have to ask you to wind up, because Liam Kerr wants to come in with a final question, and we are running over time a little bit.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Can we have Rona Mackay’s microphone on, please?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you for your opening remarks. I start with a pretty general opening question. As I am sure that you will be aware, our committee business is quite bill heavy, and we are minded to take the scrutiny of costs very seriously. I begin, therefore, with a question on funding. As you acknowledged, the bill, should it be passed, will require a significant level of funding to ensure its implementation, and thereafter to embed it. Specifically, the funding implications around part 1 are significant.
Why do you feel that this bill is the best use of resources—which we know are constrained—for preventing and addressing domestic abuse in Scotland?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
I will now bring in Liam Kerr.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 June 2025
Audrey Nicoll
I have to bring the session to a close, so I thank Ash Regan and her staff for joining us this morning. It has been a helpful session.
We will suspend for a couple of minutes to allow our witnesses to depart.
12:00 Meeting suspended.