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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 August 2025
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Displaying 3543 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

That is really interesting—and a bit concerning when it comes to the backlog issues that you have highlighted.

From what you have said, one of the challenges involves recruitment, which is something that we have been conscious of. I will touch on that briefly. What do you see as some of the priorities in addressing that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

I would quite like to move things on, thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

I would like the session to run on a little bit to 11.40, so we have about seven minutes left. We will bring things to a close by looking at aspects of reform and different models for change.

Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

I am afraid that time is against us. Mr Moir would like to come in, after which we will close this part of the meeting.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

That is helpful and will be noted.

Criminal Justice Committee

Control of Dogs (Scotland) Act 2010: Post-legislative Scrutiny

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

I am happy with that. Does anybody want to raise any other points?

I suggest that we ask for an update from the Scottish Government on its plans and whether it intends to take forward any of the Public Audit and Post-legislative Scrutiny Committee’s recommendations that fall within the criminal justice remit. Are members happy with that?

Members indicated agreement.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

I agree with the comments that have been made, so I will not repeat them. Does Mr MacGregor wish to add anything?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

For clarity and to recap, the SSI has been laid under the negative procedure, which means that there is no requirement for us to endorse the SSI or vote for it to come into force. The SSI will come into force unless Parliament agrees a motion to annul.

However, we have shared some concerns about the provisions in the SSI. I suggest that the minute of the meeting states that the committee makes no recommendation on the SSI but notes that some committee members have expressed concerns about certain provisions of the SSI and notes that those concerns are set out in the public record in the Official Report of the meeting.

Are members content with that?

Members indicated agreement.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

Okay. Thank you very much.

In light of our discussion, I propose that we write in due course to the cabinet secretary and the Scottish Prison Service to raise additional points, and that we invite the cabinet secretary back to provide further updates on the situation in relation to the provisions of the SSI.

Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Audrey Nicoll

The next agenda item is a round-table discussion on legal aid and legal aid reform. I refer members to papers 2 and 3. We will take evidence from a round table of witnesses, who will join us virtually due to social distancing rules at Holyrood.

I welcome our witnesses: Gillian Fyfe, strategic lead for strong communities, Citizens Advice Scotland; Tony Lenehen, president of the Faculty of Advocates criminal bar association; Ian Moir, legal aid convener for the Law Society of Scotland; David Fraser, executive director of court operations at the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service; Colin Lancaster, chief executive of the Scottish Legal Aid Board; Julia McPartlin, president of the Scottish Solicitors Bar Association; Professor Alan Paterson, professor of law at the University of Strathclyde; and Dr Marsha Scott, chief executive of Scottish Women’s Aid. We appreciate the time that they have taken to join us, and I thank the witnesses who have provided written submissions. Those are available online.

I intend to allow an hour and 20 minutes for questions and discussion. I ask members to indicate which witness they are directing their remarks to, then we can open the floor to other witnesses for comments. If other witnesses wish to respond, I ask them to indicate that by typing R in the chat function on BlueJeans and I will bring them in if time permits. If they are merely agreeing with a point that has been made, there is no need to intervene to say so. Other comments that witnesses make in the chat function will not be visible to committee members or recorded anywhere, so if a witness wants to make a comment, they should do so by requesting to speak.

We now move on to questions. I ask members and our invited guests keep their questions and comments as succinct as possible to facilitate a free-flowing discussion. I will structure the discussion around a series of broad themes. The first theme is access to justice and the current experiences of users of the legal aid system, and I will direct some opening questions to Professor Alan Paterson and Mr Ian Moir.

Professor Paterson, you had an advisory role in Martyn Evans’s review, which resulted in the report, “Rethinking Legal Aid—an independent strategic review” in 2018. It brought out some key issues about simplifying the system, creating a fair payments system and making the system more accessible. What priorities do you see in the overall theme of accessing legal aid and how can we improve access to criminal justice legal aid?