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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 February 2026
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Displaying 3928 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you very much to the cabinet secretary and her officials. That brings the public part of our meeting to a close.

Next week, we will again hear from the cabinet secretary, this time on a package of legislative consent memos for the UK Crime and Policing Bill.

12:20 Meeting continued in private until 12:54.  

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I will first bring in the minister to respond, and then you can come back in, Fulton.

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I am aware that we are coming up to time, but I would like to give everybody a chance to come in with their questions. If the panel is willing to bear with us, we will stretch the meeting by another five to 10 minutes.

11:30  

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you very much for that answer. I realise that we have slightly overrun, so I will bring the evidence session to a close. Thank you all very much indeed—this has been an informative session. We will have a suspension for five minutes to allow the minister and her officials to leave.

11:46 Meeting suspended.  

11:54 On resuming—  

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

The next item of business is consideration of the Scottish Government’s consultation on a super-affirmative instrument that will add sex to the list of protected characteristics for the offences that are outlined in the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021. I clarify that we are not approving the Scottish statutory instrument today; this is an opportunity to ask the cabinet secretary some initial questions. I refer members to paper 3. I invite the cabinet secretary to make a short opening statement outlining her plans for the consultation, after which we will move to questions.

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you very much.

To finish off, I have a more practical question, which is in regard to the future timetable beyond the closure of the consultation period. Will the responses to the consultation be published online and will there be an opportunity for the committee to be provided with an update on potential changes or alterations after the consultation?

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Interests

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

A very good morning, and welcome to the 24th meeting in 2025 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have apologies from Pauline McNeill; Fulton MacGregor is joining us online; and Sharon Dowey is slightly delayed in her arrival.

I extend our congratulations to our colleague Ben Macpherson MSP on his new ministerial role and thank him for all his work in committee.

I also welcome Jamie Hepburn MSP to the committee. We look forward to working with him, and I ask whether he has any relevant interests to declare.

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you. I will start off, and I will stick with the minister. It was helpful to hear your update on the specific matter of healthcare in prisons. As you will imagine, we have taken quite a bit of evidence on the healthcare support that is available in prisons.

Of course there are challenges with that at the moment, not least by virtue of the size of the prison population. NHS and health and care partnership representatives have told us that prison healthcare can often be limited by operational constraints. In his evidence, Dr Craig Sayers from NHS Forth Valley noted that, although he is present from 8 am to 5 pm on weekdays, he can see prisoners only during relatively short windows, because of officer availability and the natural constraints that can emerge in the prison estate. However, he also told us that, in some prisons, there seems to be more flexible access, which he believes we should look to make more standard. That would allow NHS staff to see more patients and to provide better care.

Would you care to respond to that? What commitment can the Scottish Government give to engaging with the SPS and NHS Scotland on how a more effective model that builds on the important service that is there already could be embedded in prisons?

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

By way of a follow-up, it is very helpful to understand a bit about the target operating model, because I do not think that that has been raised in evidence so far. It is good to understand that that approach is being used in order to promote service delivery. I do not want to complicate things, but how does that tie in with the MAT standards and how they are being rolled out across the prison estate?

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you for that offer. That would be really helpful, just so that we can get our heads around how everything intersects.

I will bring in Liam Kerr.