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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 3 April 2026
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Displaying 4099 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Our next item of business is consideration of the forthcoming Scottish Fire and Rescue Service reforms. As members may already be aware, we expect the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service to publish its proposals in the new year. Today, we have an opportunity to hear from the Fire Brigades Union its views on the proposed reforms. I intend to allow up to 60 minutes for this session.

I refer members to papers 5 and 6. I also note that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service’s annual report and accounts for 2024-25 have now been laid before Parliament; the clerks have circulated a copy to members in the normal manner.

I welcome, from the Fire Brigades Union, Colin Brown, executive council member for Scotland, and John McKenzie, Scottish regional secretary. You are both very welcome. I invite you to make some short opening remarks—over to you, Colin.

11:15  

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Oh no! [Laughter.]

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you—there was a lot for us to think about in your opening statement.

I was going to ask you about the service delivery review and what may come from it that you feel may be positive. However, I want to pick up on the reduction in firefighter numbers that you mentioned. I am interested in probing that a little more and looking further at the reasons for it.

A lot of organisations are seeing a change in their staff numbers as a result of all sorts of different things, such as the introduction of technology, artificial intelligence and innovation—and, in your case, fewer fires. Can you expand on where the cuts are coming from?

Criminal Justice Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Good morning, and welcome to the 33rd meeting in 2025 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received no apologies this morning. Fulton MacGregor joins us online, and we are also joined by Pam Gosal.

Our first item of business is a decision on whether to consider in private at this meeting and at future meetings all the evidence heard on, and any follow-up correspondence or action from, our consideration of the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service delivery review. Do we agree to do so?

Members indicated agreement.

Criminal Justice Committee

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I think that Agnes Tolmie wants to come in before you move on.

Criminal Justice Committee

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I will pause you there and bring in Katy Clark. There are also one or two follow-up questions, including questions from Pam Gosal.

Criminal Justice Committee

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I will have to ask for your question, please.

Criminal Justice Committee

Prevention of Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I ask you to select one or two of the witnesses to respond, because we are running out of time.

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I will come back to you for that later, Katy. I will bring in Liam Kerr first to keep the order of questions right in my head.

Criminal Justice Committee

Scottish Fire and Rescue Service (Service Delivery Review)

Meeting date: 3 December 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Do you want to come back in, Liam?