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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 August 2025
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Displaying 3543 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

We heard from the cabinet secretary on the legislative consent memorandum, in which the Scottish Government recommends that the Scottish Parliament should not consent to the relevant provisions in the bill as set out in the draft motion. Our role today is to consider the content of the memorandum and to decide whether we agree to not consent or otherwise.

At this stage, I want to open things up to members for queries, comments or questions. I will then formally ask the question on the LCM.

Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

That is fine.

Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Are members content to delegate to me the publication of the report that summarises the outcome of our deliberations on the LCM?

Members indicated agreement.

Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you, members—that has been helpful.

I will add a few personal comments. Jamie Greene talked about the correspondence between the Lord Advocate and the secretary of state. The Lord Advocate’s most recent correspondence was on 10 October, when she wrote to the new Northern Ireland secretary and outlined suggestions on the bill. As far as I am aware, the Lord Advocate has not had any response to that. On that note, the bill is nearly complete and through its journey, so I am concerned that nothing has come back from the UK Government in response to the Lord Advocate’s correspondence.

Secondly, I want to point out some comments from the Council of Europe Commissioner for Human Rights that the bill runs the risk of being found to be non-compliant with human rights. Indeed, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission also expressed grave concerns about the bill and its incompatibility with the Good Friday agreement. The cabinet secretary alluded to that in his statement when he joined us a couple of weeks ago.

Finally, I am uncomfortable with the notion that the ICRIR would have a role in Scotland that could impact on people’s access to justice, whatever that might be. I am also uncomfortable with the notion that the role and function of the Lord Advocate could be affected.

Does the committee agree with the Scottish Government that the Scottish Parliament should not consent to the relevant provisions in the bill as they have been set out in the Scottish Government’s draft motion?

It is probably best to go round the table and let members indicate their position.

For

Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)

Against

Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con)

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Minister, I thank you and your officials for joining us. We will pause to allow you and your officials to leave.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

That was a very comprehensive response, and you covered a lot in it. Following on from that, I refer to the written submission that we received from Claire Wilson, who is the chief social worker at Aberdeen City Council. In answer to a question about whether it would be better to address issues in the system before introducing a new level of management through a care service model, she said:

“What would be beneficial is to pause the Bill in terms of justice to enable a review of the current system, co-design a new one and then a careful transition over to the NCS once the social care part is set up and arrangements in place.”

Bearing in mind that we have the Bail and Release from Custody (Scotland) Bill coming down the track, as you have alluded to, and the potential increase in workload that that will bring to justice social work, I am interested in your thoughts about the suggestion that Ms Wilson made in her written submission.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you, minister. We move to members’ questions.

Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Rona Mackay has just outlined part of this, but I remind members that there are two reasons why the Government does not recommend giving consent. First,

“The Government is of the view that the Bill, as currently drafted, is incompatible with the Scottish Government’s views that those who have suffered during the Troubles are able to obtain justice and that those who committed offences during that time are appropriately held to account/punished.”

Secondly,

“the Bill makes novel and unwelcome changes to the functions and responsibilities of the Lord Advocate as head of the systems of criminal prosecution and investigation of deaths in Scotland”.

Those were the two key reasons. Does anyone else want to come in?

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you. I bring in Fulton MacGregor, to be followed by Russell Findlay.

Criminal Justice Committee

Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill

Meeting date: 21 December 2022

Audrey Nicoll

The next agenda item is to return to our consideration of the issue of legislative consent for the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill following the evidence that we took from the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Veterans. I refer members to paper 3. Members will see that the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service has also provided us with its correspondence with the Northern Ireland Office.

I will open up the discussion to members. We will then consider what recommendation we want to make to the Parliament on legislative consent.