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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 August 2025
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Displaying 3543 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

We will seek further detail on that.

Would Fulton MacGregor like to come in?

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you for that. Does Collette Stevenson want to come back in?

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Five years to wait for that to be rolled out.

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Does Stephen Imrie want to come back in?

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

We could ask for an update on that specific issue.

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2023 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have no apologies this morning, and our first item of business is consideration of the Scottish Government’s response to our pre-budget scrutiny report. I refer members to paper 1.

I intend to allow about 25 minutes for this session, and I will open it up to members for discussion and agreement on any follow-up, as required. In the spirit of efficiency, I start by asking Russell Findlay for any comments that he would like to make.

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Thanks, Jamie. I will come back to the issue of the wording in the cabinet secretary’s response to our report. Rona Mackay has her hand up, so I will go to her first.

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

While we are on the subject, my interpretation of the comments that the cabinet secretary made in his reply, which are at the bottom of page 3 of paper 1 and go into page 4, is that it is more about the interpretation of the wording that was recorded in the Official Report of that meeting, which is replicated in our budget scrutiny report. What he said is reflected accurately in both of those documents—the Official Report and our budget scrutiny report. However, he referred to the fact that, in paragraph 77 of our report, we paraphrased what he said—as Jamie Greene has noted. My view is that there was no intention to mislead in regard to the exact phrase that he used or to misrepresent what he said in committee. However, it seems to have resulted in him feeling that it was necessary for him to highlight what he felt might be interpreted as an inaccurate account of what he said. It was my intention to raise that with members.

Jamie, you have set out your views on the wider issue of the police budget. Pauline McNeill, would you like to come in on that point?

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

My interpretation of the cabinet secretary raising the issue is that, as Rona Mackay said, it is ultimately an operational decision for the chief constable to make. The cabinet secretary said in the evidence session that he had

“no intention of overseeing a budget for the police force that results in 4,000 officers leaving.”

The concern that the cabinet secretary raises is that the paraphrasing of that statement misrepresents what he said. I do not want to get caught up in the minutiae of what is in our report by way of a paraphrase set against what he actually said. If there are still questions on the budget, I am happy for us to go back to the cabinet secretary with those questions, because it is an important issue.

Stephen Imrie, do you want to come in with anything over and above that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 8 February 2023

Audrey Nicoll

Quite a range of issues were covered there. Are there specific points that you would like the committee to go back to the cabinet secretary on, or did you just want to put those points on the record?