The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
That is really interesting. I was going to pick up on the situation with the community custody units that you have just mentioned.
However, I think that what you are describing is a real need for—and the importance of—probably quite specialist training, depending on where staff are deployed and their roles and responsibilities. I presume that that will, as you have said, mean quite a significant abstraction from day-to-day business that you will have to cover, both in terms of managing the workforce and covering the costs. Is it fair to say that that is a really important aspect of managing the prison population, particularly given the challenges with numbers at the moment?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
As members have no more questions—and in the interests of your voices and vocal cords—we will bring this evidence session to a close. Thank you very much indeed for your time. It has been a really interesting session.
I suspend the meeting briefly to allow our witnesses to leave.
12:26 Meeting suspended.Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
That completes our business in public today. We now move into private session.
12:28 Meeting continued in private until 12:49.Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
Good morning, and welcome to the 33rd meeting in 2024 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received apologies from Pauline McNeill.
Agenda item 1 is a decision on taking business in private. Does the committee agree to take item 4 in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
We have about half an hour left and we still have four members who wish to come in, so I politely ask for succinct questions and responses.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
I will bring the evidence session to a close. We have overrun a bit but that discussion was valuable. I thank both our witnesses for attending. We will have a short suspension to allow for a changeover of witnesses.
11:25 Meeting suspended.Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
I will give you the final word if you wish, Mr Logue. You do not have to add anything.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
For our next panel of witnesses, we are joined by representatives of the Scottish Prison Service. I extend a warm welcome to Teresa Medhurst, chief executive; Linda Pollock, deputy chief executive; and Gerry O’Donnell, director of finance. I intend to allow about 75 minutes for the session. I ask for concise questions and responses, and for brevity, as there is a lot to get through and a lot that we are interested in.
In addition to papers 1 and 2, which members already have, I refer members to the written submission from His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Prisons for Scotland, which was circulated separately and is relevant to our questions.
I will kick things off with general opening questions for Teresa Medhurst. In your view, what are the main financial challenges that are facing the Scottish Prison Service? What advice has the SPS given to the Scottish Government on the budget resources that are needed for prisons in 2025-26?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
I have a couple of questions that I am interested in picking up on from the submission from HMIPS. Theresa Medhurst touched on Castle Huntly prison in earlier evidence. I note that, in the recently published thematic review on progression, there was a reference to significant improvements being required in individualised case management, and in training and development of staff, if people in prison are to progress to less secure conditions—such as in Castle Huntly—in preparation for release, thereby optimising the benefits of the underused capacity. Are there specific blockages or challenges—for example, around staff training and development—that are adding to that and which, from a budgetary point of view, are of interest to the committee?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
Agenda item 2 is pre-budget scrutiny. Our focus today is on the courts, the prosecution service and prisons. We have two panels of witnesses this morning. Our first panel consists of representatives of the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. I am pleased that we are joined by Malcolm Graham, the chief executive of the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service—welcome to your new role—and John Logue, the Crown Agent at the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service. I offer you both a very warm welcome.
I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I also refer members to the FDA union’s written submission, which was circulated separately and is relevant to our questioning of Mr Logue. We thank the FDA union for its submission.
I intend to allow about 75 minutes for this session. I will begin by asking the witnesses an opening general question to set the scene, after which we will move on to other members’ questions.
What do you see as being the main financial challenges that your organisation faces, and what is the latest position on any discussions that you have had with the Scottish Government on your budget for 2025-26?