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Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
I am mindful of the time. I will let the witnesses respond to that, but there has been a lot of discussion of the whole-system approach, which both our witnesses have spoken about at length, and reference was made earlier to the PCS report. Therefore, given what we have already covered, there would be value in written follow-up responses.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
I take it that that makes it quite difficult to put a figure on it. You spoke about unseen costs—a lot of what you have set out are impacts or outcomes that I imagine are quite difficult to quantify in budgetary terms. From what you are saying, presumably there is quite a significant budgetary impact, in relation to not only the practical aspects that we have spoken about but some of the things that are not quite so obvious. Is that fair to say?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
Give your voice a break. Thank you for that helpful opening scene setting.
I will pick up on the prison population, which is pretty much uppermost in all our minds. We recognise the significance of the challenges that that places on the Scottish Prison Service. At 25 October, the prison population was sitting at 8,226, and, as you say, it is expected to rise, with several prisons already over capacity. What are the implications for the Prison Service arising from those increasing numbers—specifically the budgetary implications that we are looking at today? I know from your submission that there are practical things, such as the cost of food, social care, healthcare and so on. It would be interesting to hear a wee bit more detail on that.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
That is very interesting.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
Liam Kerr has a supplementary question.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
Gosh, there was a lot in that answer, but it was very helpful.
I will bring in John Logue before l ask a follow-up question about multiyear funding.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
One standout point in your submission related to the significant pressures arising from investigations of deaths and the increasing number of post-mortems. That point certainly caught my attention. It is helpful that both your submissions are very detailed. There is a lot for members to ask about, so thank you for that answer, Mr Logue.
I will come back to funding provision and multiyear funding. You might be aware that a similar process of pre-budget scrutiny has been undertaken by the Finance and Public Administration Committee, which has heard strong evidence from the Scottish Fiscal Commission and Audit Scotland that the Scottish Government should adopt a longer-term approach to budgeting, including multiyear plans. That is nothing new for this committee. Obviously, that would offer greater flexibility for managing challenges, balancing future needs and so on.
Do you agree with that analysis? I am interested in hearing about how a multiyear funding approach would support Scottish courts and tribunals.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you. That is very helpful indeed. I will open up the questioning and pass over to Liam Kerr.
11:45Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
I will bring Liam Kerr back in for another follow-up question. We have time.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 6 November 2024
Audrey Nicoll
Our next item of business is consideration of a paper from the clerk on revisions to the Scottish Government’s revised national performance framework and national outcomes. I refer members to paper 3.
If members have no comments, is the committee content to note the developments in and around the review of the national performance framework?
Members indicated agreement.