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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
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Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 15 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
I am sure that the benefits of body-worn video that you mentioned, and perhaps those of other digital transformation aspects, will come up in members’ questions.
That brings me on to looking forward. During our scrutiny of the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill, we discussed the PIRC’s capacity, and we took evidence from you on that. What capacity and resourcing factors for the PIRC need to be considered for next year and beyond?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
If you want to provide a follow-up answer in writing, that would be helpful.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Thank you—we managed to get that question in.
I am looking through the door and I do not think that the cabinet secretary is outside yet, so I will shamelessly insert a final question. [Laughter.] It is on a point that is made in the Social Work Scotland submission on the basic issue of the police being able to make contact with services. I direct this question to David Hamilton—you may need to take it away, David. Do police officers have available to them the core access that local arrangements should be supporting?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Okay—great. That is the final word. I thank you all for what has been an excellent session. We could probably have run on for another hour.
We will have a short suspension to allow a changeover of witnesses.
11:27 Meeting suspended.
11:33 On resuming—
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
One of the things that was highlighted in the paper on safe spaces was the need for peer support, which the cabinet secretary referred to, as well as the need to work alongside clinical staff. The clinical aspect of overall care is important.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
That is helpful to know.
I will stop there and bring in members, starting with Liam Kerr.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
A very good morning, and welcome to the first meeting in 2025 of the Criminal Justice Committee. Happy new year to everyone. We have no apologies this morning.
Our first item of business is a decision on whether to take in private agenda item 3, under which we will review the evidence that we hear under item 2. Do members agree to take item 3 in private?
Members indicated agreement.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
Our main item of business is an evidence session on the continuing challenges that are faced by Police Scotland officers and staff in responding to people in distress. I welcome our first panel of witnesses. I am pleased that we are joined by Dr Inga Heyman, associate professor, Edinburgh Napier University; Assistant Chief Constable Catriona Paton and Chief Superintendent Matt Paden, Police Scotland; Dr Robby Steel, consultant liaison psychiatrist, NHS Scotland; and Dr David Hamilton, mental health manager at the state hospital. What a fantastic panel. Thank you all for giving up your time—we know that you are busy. We also appreciate the submissions that some of you were able to provide ahead of the meeting.
I refer members to papers 1 and 2, and I thank—in addition to our witnesses—all the organisations that have provided us with written evidence. I intend to allow up to 75 minutes or so for this session. To get us started, I will open with a very general question. We will start with Dr Heyman, and we will then work our way across the panel.
The policing response to people in distress is an issue that the committee has been interested in for much of this parliamentary session. What are your initial thoughts on the progress that has been made in that area of policing generally? In addition, from your respective perspectives, what are the key priorities that need to be considered in further developing a multisectoral or whole-system approach that enables officers and staff to transfer the care of a person to a more appropriate service?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
We are now joined by the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs and her officials. I wish you all a happy new year. Accompanying the cabinet secretary from the Scottish Government, I welcome Lynsey McKean, policy team leader in the police division, and Alasdair Cook, principal medical adviser with the mental health division. I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow about 75 minutes for this evidence session.
I invite the cabinet secretary to make some opening remarks.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 8 January 2025
Audrey Nicoll
The submissions from Police Scotland and others have helpfully set out some of the work that has been going on, which is welcome to see.
I bring in Dr Robby Steel.