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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 4099 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

That is correct.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you. The issue of recruitment was considered during the passage of the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill. Personally, I am quite relaxed about it. I think that there is a need for a proportion of PIRC staff to have a real understanding of processes and procedures within policing, but I acknowledge some of the concerns that were raised around that. Will that issue need to be reviewed or considered, or are you content with the approach as it is at the moment?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you for those really well-made points.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you for that interesting update. While you were responding, I was wondering whether you have engaged with relevant partners on the change. You spoke about working on a business case and about engagement that is under way with the Scottish Government, so it will be interesting to monitor how that progresses.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you very much. One of the key things that you referenced in your opening remarks was the substantial increase in your workload, and you mentioned the complex and evolving nature of the type of investigations that you undertake. The report provides further detail on that.

I will pick out a couple of things. The examination of on-duty allegations of assault made against police officers remains one of your biggest areas of work, and the report highlights that the nature and type of referrals continue to evolve. For example, the report references referrals relating to the discharge of firearms by firearms officers during incidents involving XL bully dogs, so there are new and emerging types of activity. I am interested in hearing a wee bit more about what that looks like more broadly.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

In regard to having constituents who are very familiar with the work of the PIRC, that probably goes for us all.

If nobody else has any questions, I want to clarify one final point, which relates to Pauline McNeill’s question about the proposals on the presentation of cases at senior officer misconduct hearings. We did a wee check back of the Government’s response to our stage 1 report, in which the cabinet secretary said:

“Whilst this is not for the Bill itself, on balance, our intention is to consult on this when considering regulations with the Scottish Police Consultative Forum. My view is that PIRC are best placed to carry out this role. PIRC will have conducted the initial assessment, carried out the investigation and have all the documentation to present the case, though they may opt to procure the required skill set when necessary.”

I just wanted to put that on the record in response to Pauline’s question. You may not be bothered about that, Michelle, given that, as I understand it, you conclude your tenure in early 2025.

Criminal Justice Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

Good morning, and welcome to the second meeting in 2025 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received no apologies from members. Fulton MacGregor joins us online.

The first item of business is a decision on whether to take item 3 in private. Do we agree to take that item in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

The next item of business is to hear from the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner team on its work in the past year and its plans for the future. I am pleased to welcome to the committee Michelle Macleod, the commissioner; Sharon Smit, the accountable officer; and Phil Chapman, the director of operations. I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow about 60 minutes for the session.

Before we move to questions, I ask the commissioner to make a short opening statement to highlight the main points from the annual report.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

I will bring in Sharon Dowey in a moment, but I want to ask about the recruitment and retention information that is helpfully set out in your annual report. Of course, none of the work that you do could happen without the quality and experience of your staff body. I note that on page 31 of your report, you make reference to the fact that the budget is set each year by the Scottish Government, that you are under the same pressures with regard to things like public sector pay rises as other bodies are, and that you had to submit a business case to

“request additional funding for staff costs on a recurring basis and temporary funding for legal fees.”

Although the report says that you have a low staff turnover, which is really good, it also says that there will be retirals in the coming year. Can you say more about your priorities with regard to retaining an experienced and skilled staff body under the constraints that you face?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police Investigations and Review Commissioner Annual Report 2023-24

Meeting date: 15 January 2025

Audrey Nicoll

We wish you well in whatever comes next for you. Thank you again for coming along today.

We move into private session.

11:09 Meeting continued in private until 11:55.