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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 September 2025
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Displaying 3578 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you. We raised the issue of public trust and confidence, which you spoke about at the beginning of your answer, with the SPA. Are there provisions in the bill that would enhance public trust and confidence? One of the witnesses in the previous session spoke about the call-in provision and the code of ethics, which he felt was of particular value. I am interested in whether there are parts of the bill that are important for public trust and confidence.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Nicky Page, do you have further comments to add?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

That is a comprehensive and helpful opening statement. I will start with a question. You spoke about Lady Elish’s significant work, which underpins where we are today. We know that many of the recommendations in her report have already been put in place, are under way or are being implemented. My question is about measuring progress. As you said in your opening comments, we have taken evidence from individuals in previous evidence sessions and we have heard from members of the public who described what seemed to be inconsistent and, in some cases, unacceptable standards of response when they made a complaint to Police Scotland about the conduct of officers. In addition, as you reference, we heard evidence that, when police officers are the subject of a complaint, the way that they are treated seems to fall short. We heard from one officer who shared his distressing story with us.

I am interested in exploring a bit more about what work the Scottish Police Authority undertakes to look at the views of those who have made complaints, whether they be police officers and staff or members of the public, to measure their experience in the context of the improvements that we are all trying to make and, in particular, the Scottish Police Authority is trying to make in and around the way that complaints are dealt with.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

The Home Office review, which I mentioned in my first question, also notes that the introduction of legally qualified chairs for all ranks has introduced delays into the system. It has also left chief constables with “insufficient responsibility” or oversight

“over proceedings relating to their own workforce”.

Do you have any comments on that? Would that finding shift your view on recommending the introduction of independent, legally qualified chairs for all ranks of officers?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Good morning, and welcome to the 19th meeting in 2024 of the Criminal Justice Committee. We have received no apologies.

Our business today is to continue our evidence taking on the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.

I welcome to the meeting the Rt Hon Lady Elish Angiolini KC, who joins us remotely. We are grateful to her for agreeing to provide evidence to the committee.

I refer members to papers 1 and 2. I intend to allow up to 60 minutes for this evidence session.

I have an opening question, Lady Elish. Since you produced your review of the police complaints process in 2020, the Scottish Government has introduced the bill that we are currently scrutinising. There have also been high-profile cases involving complaints and matters such as vetting, such as the Gemma MacRae decision in Scotland and the Sarah Everard case in England. Will the bill as it is currently drafted make the difference that you would like to see? Alternatively, do changes or improvements need to be made to it? If so, how?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

Thank you. That is an interesting perspective.

I will now open up questions to members. I will bring in Russell Findlay and then Sharon Dowey.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I will come back to you, Sharon, if we have time, which is very limited.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

We are just coming up to time. Thank you, Lady Elish, for joining us today. That was a very interesting and informative session, and I very much appreciate it.

10:55 Meeting continued in private until 11:03.  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

I wonder whether I could follow up a line of questioning from Pauline McNeill about misconduct proceedings relating to former officers. In its review of the process of police officer dismissals in 2023, the Home Office notes that the process of continuing misconduct proceedings against former officers

“is an expensive, time-consuming process which draws forces’ resources away from dealing with those individuals who are still serving.”

I am interested in your views on that conclusion and your reflections on why it is important that there is a provision in the bill on misconduct proceedings against former officers.

10:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Audrey Nicoll

That is interesting. I have a final, quick question from Rona Mackay, and then we will have to draw the session to a close.