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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 August 2025
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Displaying 638 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Culture Sector

Meeting date: 7 October 2021

Angus Robertson

Absolutely. Let me start in a place that people might not have thought of. We could start in the US, but I will come back there in a moment. I have been discussing with some members of the committee the Scottish Government’s plans for an expansion of our network that includes Copenhagen and Warsaw. I will give a concrete example of why a direct presence in Copenhagen matters. You do not need to be the biggest fan of Scandi noir to understand that one of the most successful broadcasters in the world to produce content in recent years has been DR, the Danish public broadcaster.

What DR has been able to do, individually and in co-production, often with its Swedish and Norwegian neighbours, is produce content in a language that is spoken by only 5 million people. We have all been enjoying series such as “Borgen”, “The Bridge” and a variety of other series that have been massive hits. That is a classic example of why I think that, notwithstanding all the other sensible reasons for us having a presence in the Nordic and Baltic regions, we can learn from the best practice of a country that has been tremendously successful. What has it been doing that has meant that a country the same size as Scotland, with a national broadcaster, which we do not have in the same way, has been able to make commercially successful productions and export them? The number 1 place that I want to learn from is Denmark, so having a presence in Copenhagen is a very good idea.

Of course, it is much more than that. There is a Scottish Government office in Washington DC that works closely with our Scottish Development International presence in other parts of the United States. In addition, Screen Scotland regularly has a presence in the US when it deals directly with people in the film industry about the changing landscape, if we want to call it that, of screen production in Scotland. That operates on the basis that we have permanent representation and a wider network that is joined up with the Scottish Government and our agencies.

An additional thought that fits in with my portfolio relates to our diaspora, part of which includes some of the most successful people in film and television in the world. They just happen not to be based here. We know that we have great fortune that somebody such as Brian Cox, to pluck an example out of the air, can one week be making the hit series “Succession”, and the next week can be filming something in Dundee for BBC Scotland because he is personally committed to that. I want to make sure that people in our diaspora who work in the sector are fully aware of what is going on here, because a great many of them have moved semi-permanently somewhere else. That is their life choice; they have the good fortune to work in an industry that has taken them to LA or wherever it might be. They operate in a sector in which they have great influence and can help to promote what we are doing here in their own way. That is something else that is on my list.

Yes, there is the formal work and the efforts to have a greater footprint, and what they can add as part of our endeavour. It is then about using the networks of people who are part of the Scottish diaspora or affinity Scots who can also play a part.

I have just had another thought on that. In recent years, a number of people have come to Scotland to make films or television series. They are not from here, and when they have gone back to wherever it is they have come from, they have shared immense praise with their colleagues. We need to do everything that we can to capitalise on the good will that we see growing in the film and TV industry to get maximum effect in Scotland.

There are massive upsides at the moment, and I encourage the committee to develop its interests in that.

10:45  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Culture Sector

Meeting date: 7 October 2021

Angus Robertson

There is a conceptual point about understanding the feedback on that. I think that everybody here will appreciate that, just because a particular body is headquartered in—for the sake of argument—Edinburgh, that does not mean that all its cultural work is undertaken in Edinburgh. We have cultural organisations that set great store by the fact that they tour, but that is not borne out in the headline figures on the disbursal of funds to particular organisations. That creates the impression that all the money is centred on Edinburgh, for example, which is not the case.

I speak as somebody who lived for a great length of time in the north of Scotland and who was able to enjoy all kinds of national companies and other companies that are headquartered in Edinburgh or Glasgow performing in places such as the Universal hall in Findhorn or Elgin town hall. That underlines the point that we have to be careful in understanding where money is disbursed to.

A second point is about how we encourage organisations that are currently not funded to seek funding. That goes back to something that we discussed right at the start, so I do not want to go round the houses again on that. One thing that the committee might be able to help us with is understanding whether there is a slew of organisations across the country that wish to be funded and that are not being funded for a particular reason. If that is the case, I would like to know about it. I do not have a sense of systemic underfunding of organisations that are based outside the cities.

It is probably undeniably the case that some cultural organisations could do more work elsewhere in the country. Mr Cameron will know that funding streams have been made available and are being disbursed right now to allow performers and people in the arts scene to reach different parts of the country. I encourage anybody who is watching the meeting to do so if they want to.

Point 1 is a conceptual point—it is not the case that the money is spent only in the local authorities in whose areas the organisations are headquartered. Secondly, I am not aware that there is a whole series of organisations that are based elsewhere and are not funded or are underfunded. Thirdly, we need to ensure that we reach the whole country.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Culture Sector

Meeting date: 7 October 2021

Angus Robertson

I am sure that the committee will have been well advised about the real and the projected loss of income among a variety of cultural organisations, including those that are funded directly by the Scottish Government. That issue is very much at the forefront of our minds.

I will make a general point. On one hand, we have an opportunity here—I am speaking for the Government, but any influence that members could have on the public in this regard would be welcome. Obviously, we need to help those organisations directly, but they also receive support from the public—from visitors to their sites, in the case of attractions and historic buildings for which the likes of Historic Environment Scotland have responsibility. I am keen for us to be as imaginative as possible about how we can drive up their income to help to fill the gap that the pandemic has caused.

There are two sides to the issue. First, there is what the Scottish Government can do, and I think that you know the headline numbers. We have shared the information with you and some of you have asked parliamentary questions, in response to which we have detailed the amount of money that the Scottish Government has provided to help with that. At the same time, one area where we need to do more is in encouraging the public to make the most of those cultural sites, which will help with economic recovery and income for the organisations.

On Dr Allan’s specific point about the material state of some of the cultural real estate—I am sure that that is not quite the right way of putting it, but by that I mean all the places of historic interest—we know that, because Scotland is a historic nation, many of those places are very old. We have stringent health and safety standards, correctly, for people who visit old castles, stately homes and historic sites. That has been reviewed in past months, and I understand that the recommendations from the review process are being discussed by the HES board this month. You will probably be able to get more specific information on that soon.

On the fabric issues, I am sure that we all agree that we would wish for these places to be able to open fully as quickly as possible. That hangs together with my more general point about encouraging public access to and uptake of our cultural sites. There is more information to come on that question, but we are very much seized of the difficulty that some organisations are facing because of the drop in income.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Culture Sector

Meeting date: 7 October 2021

Angus Robertson

First, I understand that you were attending another committee meeting at the start of these proceedings, Mr Golden, and that you are a new member of the committee, so welcome to the committee—I look forward to working with you.

At the beginning of the meeting, I made a statement in which I outlined the massive Scottish Government spending that has been undertaken, which, in great measure, is way beyond the funding levels that we have received in consequentials from the UK Government. Our ambition is to put the funding in place to support recovery right across the cultural sector. As Mr Golden will understand, there are several funding streams available, and I appreciate that different venues are treated in different ways. Therefore, some might feel more uncertain than others. I totally understand that.

Members must forgive me, as I do not know whether the point that I am about to make is one that I made before or after Mr Golden was able to take part in our proceedings, but one of the things that lie in our hands is the ability to encourage the speediest recovery possible of the arts and culture scene. It worries me that some organisations think that they will not get back to their pre-pandemic financial position for up to five years. We should be doing as much as we can to minimise that period.

We have made funding streams available. As those come to the end of their natural life, we must think about the resources that we have and whether any targeting is required in specific areas. Therefore, if Mr Golden has examples, I will be keen to hear whether there is a gap between the intention of funding streams and the delivery for particular outlets. However, I am very focused on thinking about what we can do to encourage maximum public take-up of the cultural offering; whether that offering is part of the pantomime season or the Edinburgh International Festival matters not. What matters is that people go, that they feel that they are safe and that our cultural offering can bounce back.

Mr Golden asked specifically about production bookings. I do not know whether there is anything behind his question that he wants to add, but anything that Government and Government agencies can do to encourage participation in and support of the cultural offering is a large part of our way out of the situation. Government does not do culture. It is for us to support people who do culture to do culture, if that makes sense. I am keen that we are as innovative as we can be to drive up cultural participation, which means more people in theatres and at events, more income for those organisations and a quicker financial recovery. In the meantime, we are continuing to fund venues and organisations to a significant degree, to help them to find their feet again.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Culture Sector

Meeting date: 7 October 2021

Angus Robertson

I reviewed some of the figures before I came to the meeting. I observed that, in general terms, cultural spending by local authorities has remained in place, which is positive. I commend people who work in local government, because they have a great deal of demand on their budgets.

There is always an opportunity for partnership working. However, I would put down one marker in the conversation, having said to Mr Golden that it is not for the Scottish Government to do culture. Instead, we support culture, and we help cultural organisations that are much closer to the front line. That arm’s-length separation is there for a reason. I am sure that Mr Golden would be the first to tell me that it would not be a good idea for local government to be directed or to remove its ability to set budget priorities and make budget decisions.

He talked about publishing a report and having an understanding of what is being done, and there is definitely something in that. Of course, we answer questions in the usual way about information that the Scottish Government holds. I need to defer to colleagues on the degree of understanding that we have on a council level. That would be answered through partnership working and working with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, and I think that that would be hugely valuable. I am sure that a lot of that happens at present. Do colleagues want to add anything on that point?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Scottish Government Update

Meeting date: 2 September 2021

Angus Robertson

I am not a great gamer in the sense of “Grand Theft Auto”. Forgive me, I was answering the question on the basis of gaming financially, as opposed to the online version.

I mentioned “Grand Theft Auto”, but I think that most people in Scotland are unaware of how groundbreaking game development in Scotland has been. It is not only about “Grand Theft Auto”, but if people do not know just how big and groundbreaking that game is, they should go and have a look. It might not be all our thing, so to speak, but it is a thing for a lot of people around the world. We have a great tradition in that area, particularly in Dundee but elsewhere too.

In parallel, we also have some very interesting developments in the tech sector in Scotland. The tech and games sectors are related, because we have a huge opportunity—as well as a challenge—with regard to helping to give enough people, particularly younger people, the skills, training and expertise to walk into those emerging sectors, and ensuring that the maximum number of people here are able to take up such jobs. That is still an open question. There are some countries for which computer science is absolutely up there as a priority—the good news is that it is for the Scottish Government, too—and we need to ensure that we match those organisations that have a big tech locus.

There is an aspiration for Edinburgh to become the data hub of the whole of Europe, and there is a huge artificial intelligence sector developing in Edinburgh, too. That should be hugely encouraging for a young generation of people for whom computing, gaming, tech and AI are interesting. Although some of those sectors fall into the education or economic development spheres of the Government’s work, they also fall in part into culture. We need to understand that many of them are extremely relevant; as such, they are also on my long list of things that are relevant for me and my colleagues.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Scottish Government Update

Meeting date: 2 September 2021

Angus Robertson

Again, that is a subject that we could spend a whole session talking about.

Let us deal with the tangible. For those who are unaware, I represented a rural constituency for 16 years, so the issues that you raise are not foreign to me. The successes in that part of the world—I am talking about Moray—are at the forefront of my thoughts. We are not talking only about there being a cultural offering in cities, with nothing in rural areas—far from it. There is a strong tradition of a touring element among our artistic community and our cultural organisations. Those whose memories are long enough will remember “The Cheviot, the Stag and the Black, Black Oil”, which was a cultural production that travelled round all the villages and towns of Scotland.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Scottish Government Update

Meeting date: 2 September 2021

Angus Robertson

I cannot do that question justice in the time that we have. I am absolutely seized of that, not only because of Covid. We have a great opportunity to showcase our cultural offering, especially with the 75th anniversary of the Edinburgh international festival next year. It was founded by an exiled Austrian Jew, Rudolf Bing. I was discussing that with the Austrian ambassador yesterday to try to ensure that we can maintain the festival’s connection to the country of his birth.

How do we help, support and work with our cultural organisations and our venues to ensure that they are in the best possible position to take part in the recovery? Ms Boyack will be aware that there have been announcements about certain venues. For example, during recess, a significant funding announcement was made by the Scottish Government about the King’s theatre in Edinburgh. We are committed to supporting the cultural sector and venues as they bounce back.

We frequently have discussions with people in the cultural sector. We are very well informed about the needs, interests, concerns and expectations of people in the sector. We want to be able to match their ambitions as part of the recovery of the arts and culture sector. If it is not obvious to members, a look at the statistics will confirm that the impact that the lockdown had on the arts and culture sector was among the worst in the Scottish economy. It behoves us to do everything that we can. There are constraints, but we should do as much as we can to work with our colleagues in the sector. We are doing that.

10:30  

The sad reality is that we are dealing with a global pandemic. We are doing our level best to ensure that we do not have to go back into restrictions. I am happy to tell the committee that I took part in a meeting yesterday with the Deputy First Minister and representatives from different sectors. Some of the first people who spoke in that meeting were leading members of the cultural community and people who manage venues. They very much buy into the approach that we are trying to take, which is to do all that we can to ensure that we do not have to go backwards into restrictions. By working in partnership, we can increase the chances of being able to recover from Covid and of seeing the cultural sector not only recovering but thriving.

I will leave you with a final thought. I am personally interested in Scotland’s cultural offering internationally. Most countries pursue that through a cultural diplomacy framework. I will be developing my thoughts about that during this session of Parliament and will be happy to return to the committee to speak about that. We have a tremendous offering, not only domestically but internationally. We want to do all that we can to support that in the years ahead.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Scottish Government Update

Meeting date: 2 September 2021

Angus Robertson

I look forward to coming back.

10:32 Meeting continued in private until 10:52.  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Scottish Government Update

Meeting date: 2 September 2021

Angus Robertson

One of the advantages, if I can call it that, of having had an election shortly before a recess is that, as a Government minister—I am learning this as we go along—I could use that recess time to bed into the job. There is a sort of golden hour for reaching out and speaking with people. I have been doing that on a number of different levels. In the first instance, I have been speaking to the consular corps—the diplomatic corps—in Scotland. You will be aware that a wide range of countries have consulates in Scotland, largely in Edinburgh, and I and Scottish Government colleagues have been meeting consuls general—and, on occasion, diplomats from London embassies—about developments in Scotland and also specifically in relation to consular questions. We may come on to this, but that has included the impact that Brexit is having on other countries’ citizens and on people from here in their countries.

There has been very good engagement with the consular corps in general. Specifically, I have met face to face and in person with the consuls general of the United States of America, Germany, France, Japan, Ireland and Austria, and with the rest on Teams calls. I have also been engaging with the diplomatic community in London. Visits are beginning to take place. Looking back in my diary, in recent weeks I have met in person with the ambassador of Slovenia. His country, which I think is comparable in size to Wales, is a very important country, because it currently has the presidency of the European Union, so I was very pleased to meet him in person. I have met the ambassadors of Finland and Austria. I have met the Indian high commissioner, and I have spoken via Teams with a number of others.

On Europe, I have met or been in communication with, among others, the German permanent representative to the European Union; the Irish permanent representative to the European Union; David McAllister, who is the chair of the European Parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs; and MEPs from across all the mainstream political families in the European Parliament. You will be aware that there is a friends of Scotland group in the European Parliament. That is just—I say “just”—the outreach that I have been engaged in during recess with the diplomatic community here, in London and in Europe.

Further afield, you will know that the Scottish Government has representatives in a good number of countries around the world, and we are hoping to increase that. We have been working closely with them, too.